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Incredulous = noFeb 05, 2009


Folks,

Does not a shareholder own the apartment slab to slab and wall to wall? The co-op owns inside the wall and the owner owns the paint and outward, to over simplify.

But, the shares are typically allocated based on floor size within the unit as bounded by the walls regardless if useable or not, e.g.: walls and columns are not subtracted from the square foot calculation and the elevation, floor within a building, e.g.: higher equals more shares.

A unit owner is thus not encumbered in modifying an apartment save with the provisions of the bylaws and house rules. As for charging more for “improvements”, in this case removing a drop ceiling, it is out of the question and just a bit incredulous.

But, if the dropped ceiling is used as a fire break or sound buffer, then the corporation can assert that the drop ceiling cannot be removed. This is the corporation’s only recourse.



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A] still lacking info; B] the larger point - C/CS Feb 06, 2009


We don't know what "slab to slab" means at this building. IF the dropped ceiling defines a working plenum, then the shareholder's space likely begins with the paint on the underside of that sheetrock, while the corporation owns the plenum. This detail is critical.

The larger point is that dealing with each apartment case-by-case would be as silly as trying to increase the % of building maintenance paid by those with a little extra headroom. Make a building-wide decision to allow, then move on.

Given that attention is paid--as has been rightly pointed out by others--to issues of adequate heat, noise, etc., then no shareholder will be measurably inconvenienced or financially burdened by anyone's individual ceiling choice.

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Ah, good point - Sherman Feb 06, 2009


Slab to slab or slab to "drop ceiling" ----
Who is responsible for the drop ceiling?

Is it the corporation? If yes, then the resident may not remove/alter without permission and stipulations.

Is it the shareholder? If yes, then this is a simple alteration within a unit and most often, the corporation is not involved save to ensure that insured and licensed contractors perform the work.

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Owning shares, not an apt - broker Feb 07, 2009


Hi, Sherman,

As someone in the real estate business, I feel obligated to point out a common error you made. A Co-op owner does not, in fact, own any part of his/her apartment (not counting the furnishings, of course).

When you buy into a co-op you buy shares in a corporation. The corporation owns the building and all the apartments in it. Your shares grant you the right to live in one of the apartments as long as you sign the lease (that's the proprietary lease).

Since co-op shareholders don't own their apartments, the corporation determines which alterations are made and under what circumstances.

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Re: Owning shares... - AR Feb 09, 2009


It is important to note with this information you have provided that while the Co-op (or higher governing Corporation as is in some cases) owns the building in entirety, the resident Shareholder has purchased shares entitling them to a long term, almost perpetual Proprietary Lease Agreement for use and occupancy of a specified area, which clearly states and defines the area that the resident shareholder is leasing and responsible for. The borders of this Leased area, which is typically plaster to plaster on a horizontal level and flooring substrate to plaster on a vertical plane (making no mention here of elec, plumbing, etc.).

Consequently, the Co-op would either have to amend the particular lease to include the given areas, which would then require a reallocation of shares, maintenance, etc.. and is more trouble than it is worth for a small indenture as this, or it may sell permanent usage/easement to the Leaseholder for a single payment with no share allocation. This is usually the best way to go, and is typical of may similar situations we have done.

Notwithstanding the aforesaid, I am still somewhat opposed to this particular idea because of the liability concerns and potential future problems that are sure to arise. Good Luck.

~AR

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