Is he union or non-union? If union, I'd immediately file a grievance with 32BJ and seek restitution. "Not knowing a weed from a plant" is no excuse, and also hard to believe; the super could have asked someone. It sounds as if he used the opportunity to get back at the board for some reason.

If he's non-union, it depends on his record. If he's otherwise done his job properly, I'd work out some restitution, like foregoing his bonus this year, or deducting the $600 from it. If this is the latest in a pattern, that's a different story.

You should thank him...Did anyone should him what they wanted done? I always find it better if someone showed the man the work that needed to be done, they you could say he over did it.

With all due respect to the previous poster, how on God's green earth can you possibly say "You should thank" the super who destroyed the co-op's gardens?

This sounds like maybe the the super himself writing in. (And I use "writing" loosely: "Did anyone should him what they wanted"? "they you could say he over did it"?)

No one should have to show a supposed professional how to do a simple task well within the bounds of his job. If the super is too mentally challenged to understand "pull out weeds," then I'm sorry, but the building is at severe risk. Building emergencies come up, and they require someone with an IQ of above special-needs.

Met - you said "no one should have to show a supposed professional how to do a simple task well within the bounds of his job." Pulling weeds isn't necessarily part of a super's job. Whoever told him to pull weeds should've shown him what they are, and he should've spoken up if he doesn't know the difference between weeds and plants.

Many NYers aren't from homes with gardens and don't know what weeds look like. If the super didn't know, that doesn't mean that he's "mentally challenged". An owner on a bldg's gardening committee (if there is one) or one who knows gardening and volunteers should pull weeds if the super doesn't know how to, or a landscaper should do it as part of regular gardening maintenance.

The super should also be told not to touch any plantings without talking to the prop mgr, board (or gardening committee) first.

Is it in his job description to be a gardner? Don't the building have a landscaper that they hire or is the building just picking on this superintendent? You and the managing agent should sit down and explain to him just what he did wrong and see what his response is, then decide what action to take from there.

Does this super have a full command of English?
If not, was he given instructions by someone fluent in his native language?
Have miscommunications been a problem in the past?

I think before anyone jumps to conclusions about motives, etc.....
we just ought to know more about the specifics.

Anonymous makes some good points about whether things fall under a super's job description. I would agree that cutting and removing tree branches, for example, generally requires a specialist.

But pulling weeds? Aren't we setting the bar awfully low? Pulling weeds, for heaven's sake! Children in Third World countries pull weeds. Oakie 8-year-olds during the Great Depression pulled weeds. How about mowing the lawn? Teenagers not old enough to have a driver's license can mow a lawn. How about trimming a hedge? Does that require a specialist?

And in response to RLM, who also makes what seems at the outset to be a reasonable point, a super who is responsible for the day-to-day care of a co-op or a condo, and who has to deal with oil deliveries, city inspectors, residents' in-wall plumbing issues etc. needs to have a full command of English.

Even with someone who doesn't, I find it inconceivable that anyone's thought processes would lead him to think, "Let's pull up ALL the plants." What could possibly be the internal rationale for that?

I'm probably getting too worked up. It's just that in this economic environment, with so many good people unemployed in a wide variety of fields (not yet me, thank goodness, so this isn't a personal thing), that this building has someone who clearly is not as good as others in his profession. Like any other business, why not try to hire the best you can afford?

Or maybe THAT'S the real problem: The board's not paying enough for a proper super.

I agree that a super needs to have a full command of English. The truth is, many don't. And some Boards won't pay a salary high enough to attract one who will.

I agree with you, just think the super you are hiring to maintain your multi-million dollar building don't understand English. The Board of Directors of these buildings should do their homework a little better in hiring building personnel.

Re Responsible hiring, I fully agree that a super needs a good command of the English language, reading and writing it as well -- in order to be able to communicate with residents, sales people, management, etc. But he needs experience too.

English is the first language of the super who cut down the garden. I wasn't on the Board that hired him but they apparently banked on his "assistant porter" (but no superintendent) experience. They allowed him to stay past his probationary period, and now he's the only staff in this building. Besides some directors, the management company looks the other way when he fouls up, and it's going to be a long haul training him. The shareholders are our first responsibility, first, last, and in-between.

I really thank you all very much for your support and ideas on this problem. Some directors and many shareholders are asking the same questions -- what could he have been thinking? What was his rationale? Inexplicably, some Board members would prefer to look the other way and ignore the visual and financial cost to the shareholders, so the problem is not only with the super, but with sympathetic directors and property manager.

Whenever I start feeling a little blue now that I am on the commercial side of the business I make it a point to visit the Cooperator.

Looking at the number of replies and general interest in regard to this subject I have to ask what on God’s green earth is all the fuss about.

“The super made a mistake and took out some ground cover, “oh my God six hundred dollars worth of plants, lets demand a grievance with 32BJ.”

Are you out of your minds? Is this all you have to dwell on? At worst the super made a simple mistake.

Oops, I forgot, we are dealing with co-op’s and boards.

I now believe the super should be shot at sunrise and buried in his mistake.

Best of luck to you all.

I have to agree with Ex Res Manager, did anyone ever explain to the superintendent what he did wrong? And is he remorseful?

Ex Res Manager – We come to Board Talk for information to help solve problems and better run our buildings. To ask if we are out of our minds and what all the fuss is over the super who pulled out plants instead of weeds insults everyone who replies to it. Whatever the issue at hand is, that’s no reason for ridicule. It’s impossible to get all the facts on any issue here but this is a help line not a sitcom.

You make fun of the point that what the super did cost $600 to correct. Maybe $600 is money the original poster’s coop can ill afford to spend on this. Maybe the super didn’t make “a simple mistake” as you stated. Maybe he makes many mistakes and should be better instructed, or terminated. The original poster was asking for advice or suggestions, and other posters were trying to offer that.

I’ve been on Board Talk for a long time, and I think it’s admirable that people here not only look for help but also want to help others. If you were a building manager and are now on the commercial side of the business, we may benefit from some of your knowledge and experience. If all you can offer is criticism, you’re in the wrong place.

Thank you, BP. Well said as always.

To play devil's advocate for a minute, I think Ex Res Manager sees this as an example of those tedious battles that plague all boards from time to time. Think of those protracted disputes over the precise shade of light green that should be used for some bit of trim in the lobby:

"It should be Apple Green!"
"No, it should be Forest Fern Green!"
"Apple!!"
"FOREST FERN, YOU MORON!"

That said, I don't think this particular dispute falls into that category. The original poster has confirmed that the super's native language is English, so it's understandably disturbing that the super took the instruction "Remove the weeds" and turned it into "Remove every scrap of vegetation you can find." That's either incredibly stupid or actively hostile. I would have a polite but candid talk with the super to figure out what went wrong. Let him know you're not happy with the results, and tell him to please ask for clarification if the details of a job are unclear to him. Maybe his next job should be discreetly monitored to make sure he's doing what was requested.

Thank you, CDT. I know what you mean about tedious discussions that all boards have at times. I have one every December with mine!

"Why not a Christmas tree in the lobby?"
"No, it will offend non-Christians."
"But the fact is - it is Christmas."
"But it's also Hanukkah and Kwanza."
"Let's have decorations for all of them."
"No, the lobby will look like Disneyland."

I think we solved it last year. We had solar mini lights on our front bushes and large white poinsettia plants (a seasonal flower) in the lobby. That appeased everyone but I could've written a book in the time spent on this. As Mason said to Dixon, "You've gotta draw the line somewhere." :-)

Why should a Christmas tree offend non-Christians? A Hanukkah candle doesn't offend non-Jews. In any event, there's nothing religious about a Christmas tree -- unlike a creche, you can put Christmas trees on school and government property without violating the Constitutional line between church and state.

Jeez! (Ironic-wordplay joke there.)

A-Moose: Some of our residents object to a Christmas tree bec it's called a "Christmas" tree which acknowledges a religious holiday. They insist that if we do that we should acknowledge Hanukkah, Kwanza, etc. too. Talk about tedious discussions. We all want the same things - peace, good will. Now we just go with seasonal decorations like candles, lights and poinsettias to avoid debates on this every year.

To BP: I am so sorry to hear how close-minded and intolerant a powerful enough group of your residents are. Despite the name, Christmas is a federal holiday, which acknowledges the secular as well as religious aspects (as opposed to, say, Easter), and, as noted, a Christmas tree is considered secular by the federal government.

It's hard enough for a board to deal with all the usual pettiness and unreasonable demands of residents in general. Add to that this Taliban-like insistence on a reductively narrow interpretation of what is and isn't religious, and I feel for you. It sounds like a horrid place to live, and running it as a board member must be very trying. You have my sympathies; religious-zealot bullies are the worst kind, since they justify all their views as being the word of God.

Happily, we haven't had any arguments about winter holiday decorations. We've always had both a Christmas tree and a menorah in the lobby in December, and there have never been any complaints. No one has ever asked for Kwanzaa items, but I don't believe there would be any objections, so long as they weren't huge or aggressively religious.

On the other hand, we don't put up any decorations for Easter / Passover / Festival of Xipe Totec / Vernal Equinox since that's a more exclusively religious holiday. We might get away with some Easter bunny decorations, but no one has ever requested them.

Thank you, CDT, for your well-considered reply, and for your good suggestions. I feel the same way about the reasons he did it, and neither is good.

In all honesty my original response was a bit of a poke at what looked on the outside as a somewhat harmless mistake in the grand scheme of what it takes to manage a building the greater New York City area. Having said that and having posted in this forum with what I believe what was constructive comments let me say the following…

One of the largest issues faced by management companies, managers and other professional staff serving the Co-Op and Condo side of this business is the well intentioned and often misguided shareholder.

Let me reference a posted remark “I'd immediately file a grievance with 32BJ and seek restitution”. Now I will try and do my absolute best to behave here, but this may have not been the best advice.

“If he's otherwise done his job properly, I'd work out some restitution, like foregoing his bonus”. Let me again bite my lip and remark this also may not have been the best advice.

Let me also respectfully request for you to review this forum to audit the number of replies based on topic noting that the thread on this issue is expansive while others dealing with true fiduciary issues remain for the most part muted.

Let me again state in that context “Looking at the number of replies and general interest in regard to this subject I have to ask what on God’s green earth is all the fuss about.”

While I offer my most sincere apology if the original poster took offence for the remark “Are you out of your minds?” my original intent remains the same.

We didn't mention a grievance with the union. The problem is more than the cost of the plants. Yes, the super made a mistake. The mistake cost the appearance of the building, the bank account of the shareholders, and more. The ramifications of his mistake don't get thrown in the trash like he did our garden.

Again, thank you for what was coined in "Cool Hand Luke" as "getting my mind right".

Gardening Committee?

We had one.....wayyyyyy back when I was a Res Manager.....eight shareholders arguing about planting one rose bush.

I just have to love it.

Don't expect a person that you hire to do porter or superintendent work do landscaping because you assume every person in this type of business should know about weeds or trees. Ask the person first about his compentence, then train the person to do the work, but never assume. You could be highly surprised or equally disappointed.

Finally, $600 of landscaping is not as bad if you never trained him.

AdC

You're right about asking the person if he knows a weed from a flower before asking him to pull up a row of weeds in front of a window and then come home to see he's pulled up & cut down an entire garden, including a small tree. $600 in cost is only the price of materials replacement; the cost to the appearance to the building is inestimable, as is the cost to the shareholders' confidence in the person.