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Re: Thanks, but...Nov 04, 2008


Fish "particles" will not give you cancer, or, hopefully, set off asthma or other serious allergies. The reason secondhand smoke is being taken seriously in courts these days is because the surgeon general has legitimized the serious health issues caused by secondhand smoke/odor etc. It's not akin to strong perfume odors (which can cause allergies)or cooking odors though those can be restricted under the "unreasonable odors must not permeate other units or common areas" clause in house rules. Secondhand smoke has been proven to cause cancer and that has evolved into an actionable violation that has been upheld in the courts.

And, yes, the smoke/odor from one cigarette can and does migrate through floors/outlets. Our Board has checked out complaints of this nature and we've seen one cigarette produces this insidious smoke that travels and is very evident in adjacent units.

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Thanks, but... - AdC Nov 08, 2008


You sound angry. Yet, you cannot convince me that smoke from a lonely smoker is not diluted in a large volume of air and that the odor does not indicate presence of smoke.

Sorry, but the topic becomes rather emotional and statement repeated of what is well know: secondary smoke causes cancer; but, is odor too? I think this is a new one!
AdC

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Smoke/Odors - markeg Nov 09, 2008


I lived in a building where a resident lived on the lobby floor across from the elevator. She was a chain smoker and rarely left her apartment. The smoke/odor was horrible. When she opened her door smoke would escape to the common hallways. The rug and the outside of her door were brown from nicotine stains. We put a deodorizer in the hallway and advised her of the complaints that were being received from other owners. She was receptive to the complaints and tried to smoke near an open window. The situation remained the same. It was an embarassement to take a friend to your apartment and have to smell cigarette smoke.
I believe that smoke odor is the same as second hand smoke. How would the outside of her door to her apartment and the carpet be brown from nicotine? I guaranty that everytime you waited for the elevator you got to breathe some second hand smoke. With that said I believe that smoke and odor is the same.

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Smoke and Loneliness - BN Nov 09, 2008


How do we know the smoker was lonely? Maybe she was happy to be alone and left to her smoke. Maybe her husand left her because of secondhand smoke. Maybe she loves her cigarettes more than life itself. Sorry, I couldn't resist. As an ex 2 pack a day smoker, I know what it is like to be addicted, but as someone who gave it up 25 years ago, I have little patience for inhaling other people's smoke/odor/carcinogens/particles whatever. If we wanted to expose ourselves to the risks of any and all of the above, we can smoke firsthand and suffer the consequences. In a community you have to go with the socially accepted norm and that is not to inflict your lifestyle on other people. It's the basis of civility and without civility and respect for other people, life in a co-op hasn't got a chance. It is very draining and not happy work for the Board to make shareholders comply. Back and forth with counsel takes enormous time and energy from an unpaid Board and we have to sacrifice our personal lives for the sake of the greater good.

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Re: Smoke and Loneliness - Secondhand Commenter Nov 10, 2008


I think AdC meant "lone smoker," not "lonely smoker." In any case, his strong defense of smoking odors is very odd, especially that cinnamon comparison. Smell operates on the existence of microscopic particles and not waves. Thought it may stretch the bounds of AdC's imagination, particles can travel surprising distance ... and even leaving aside the well-documented effects of secondhand smoke, cigarette odor is both noxious and obnoxious. It's a warrant of habitability issue -- and he ever-helpful Joseph Shkreli put everything in exactly the right, proactive context.

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