I hear this all of the time. Do nothing so that you know nothing. Not great advice. Isn't it better to know so you can plan? An engineering report costs so little – get it done.

If I may ask, what does this report typically include beside the obvious boiler ?
I've been trying to convince my fellow board members for years without success ... who knows, this year might be my lucky year.

Thanks

ALWAYS better to know what's ahead, whether you're a board member or shareholder (or both).

Just DO NOT use Rand Engineering

If you can't post using a name, please don't post negative comments about specific firms.

We used Rand for our roof re-do... and while they weren't perfect, they got the job done.

if they weren't perfect as you say, why hire them. i do not cars if he posts anonymous if it saves anyone aggravation. I pay for a professional job. When people are spending other people's money, they seem to forget that . i don't. if there is a reason to not use the company
i listen to WNYC and i like the show on Leonard lopate , once a month , home inspectors father son team, They seem to know what is going on. I have worked in construction type job, there are more ways to rip somebody off if you dont know the game, and aren't bought out.
coop= your going to be ripped off if your board does not have challenging abilities.

is unobtainable.

Our roof got done on time, with very few cost overruns (which were offset by savings in other areas). The job was professional, and considering our board was brand-new and thrown right in the fire, Rand was patient, communicative, and thorough.

In other words, they got the job done.

doing the job one was hired to do is not perfection, it is fulfilling a contract /work order.
i notice that people who are spending others people money, don't care too much how the job is performed and the quality of the work. it sounds like your work was performed satisfactory, That is good.
i expect quality work when ever i am paying for it to be done and would hope my board did the same, but i know that is not true. workers leave people apartment doors wide open, 3 x in 3 days, the owner is out and at work and comes home to a open , not unlocked ,open door at 6 pm and the workers left before 5pm. another day the worker is on another floor the door is open.did the same with a couple people in the building. workers paid to remove their construction debris and old tiles, stuck it in between the walls and floors , so when there is a leak , the extra weight causes a bigger problem. of course the MA likes these people and will rehire them,so you have to read between the lines

...that how do you know it isn't a COMPETITOR of Rand's posting that negative comment. Unscrupulous businesses post unsubstantiated negative comments about their competition all the time

why do they not want an eng report? Is it for their own self interest , not the good of the building? Are they planning on selling in a couple years and are worried the report will be used against them in resale value.
Is the manging agent the sponsor and is steering the BOD away from a Eng report, since it may open up a can of worms and possible fraud. do you want a building full of dumb people that didn't hire a home inspector that would have told them the real deal.
maybe a home inspection report is better than a enf report. Knowledge is good, it may show that the sponsor had a fraud company provide the AG office with a report for plan acceptance. sticking ones head in the sand for resale value is what people that are looking at their current resale value.

The managing agent is the one who says that it isn't necessary because whatever the engineer finds, has to be then disclosed on the financial statements, and that could cause 'problems' if anything significant is found. The managing agent isn't the Sponsor.

I agree knowledge is good and it is better to be aware of the state of the building, but I am also concerned about what he says (the need to disclose in the F/S). That's why I was curious if having to disclose everything is really is a big issue or if it will have a negative impact on our financials.

I would ask a CPA about what is a required disclosure in an audited financial statement - not a managing agent.

I applaud you for pursuing this line of inquiry, & suggest you trust your own instincts more than your agent’s advice.

If the engineer does find a serious condition, are you going to be upset because it has to be mentioned in your financials? Or will you be gratified because you’re able to prevent a catastrophic failure...or at least enabled your building to plan & fund efficient repairs?

Remember:

1—The agent is hired help, & works for you. Board members are fiduciaries, & MUST do what’s right for the building. I’ve seen far too many board members blindly accept agent recommendations without asking basic, common-sense questions.

2—The agent says an engineering study “could cause ‘problems’ if anything significant is found.” Knowledge of significant issues never causes problems. Rather, that knowledge gives you choices, & allows you to plan effectively. It’s lack of knowledge that causes problems.

3—A real problem would be if, because you’ve followed the agent’s advice to make like an ostrich, you’re surprised when you have to announce a big assessment to deal with something that’s worn out. Or, much worse—if there’s a failure resulting in injury. In either of those instances, exactly how have you served the interests of your association?

4— An absence of needed repairs & capital improvements is not what makes a set of financials “clean.” Auditors will deem your statement “clean” if there are no fiscal irregularities or unexplained/suspicious items. A footnote on your financials can explain that the warranty on your roof has expired & the engineer says it has 3-5 years of useful life remaining; your audit will still be “clean.”

A recent law requires every owner in the state, when selling a 1-4 family home, to make detailed, affirmative statements to the buyer about its condition. A loophole allows sellers to “buy” their way out with a $500 credit to the buyer, but the intent of the law is clear. When you accept the role of fiduciary for a building comprising dozens, or hundreds, of families, is it really OK to perform to a lesser standard, saying “the Board has opted not to conduct a study; the Board chooses not to know"?

Pretend NY has no auto inspection law. If your dealer says “don’t inspect your car because you might find that something major needs replacing soon,” how would you react? If he says “you should especially avoid inspection because you might sell the car soon, & if you find something like a fractured hydraulic line that could cause brake failure, you’d have to disclose that to the buyer”…what would you do?

The image of fiscal health you present to prospective buyers is important, as is keeping your common charges reasonable—but should you really let that concern trump your need to know that the building is safe? You also must ensure that your reserves are sufficient; how is it possible to state that they are, without conducting a thorough assessment of your infrastructure?

Whatever your motives for serving on your board, you surely believe you can do a good job, & make good decisions—for your family, for your neighbors, & for your collective investment. If others are so concerned about short-term fiscal impact or liability that they won’t objectively assess building conditions & implement necessary maintenance & repair protocols, they have no business becoming board members.

More here: http://condocoopowners.org/repair-replacement/

Hear, hear! Great post, thank you.

Thank you.
Our building is the PosterChild for bad advice from the MangAgent -- and worst.

Its difficult for Board members to understand that the Agent works for the Board and they have NO vested (financial) intrest in keeping our cost down.

Until Board members understand that they are running a business and the PropAgent is not thier friend, we will coninue to pay.

VP

C/CS - thank you very, very much for such a detailed explanation...your insight helped me tremendously (as did others on here).
You completely opened up my eyes as to why the report is so important by your examples, and now I know what I need to do! Thank you so much...as a new Board member, I'm still learning, but this helped tremendously.

Many thanks for taking the time to write your response with such details...very helpful...

For those B/M who believe that the MangAgent is watching your finances -- read this (below) from the NYTimes. This upscale NYC coop lost millions -- where was the ManagAgent?

The bottom line? It was the Boards legal responsibility to keep up with the Coop Finances.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/realestate/30cov.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

The board President holds the power. He/she controls the managing agent. The agent does what the board President says as if not the agent or management company gets replaced (loss of management fee). This is not rocket science. How do I know, I have witnessed it over and over. Of course they are a few companies that terminate their contract rather than being a puppet.

FS

Would your managing agent prevent you from pursuing HVAC/DHW upgrades through NYSERDA's Multi Family Energy Performance Program? Not likely and since a Level II Energy Survey is required before NYSERDA will approve the funding I suggest you take this course. There are no legal obligations to implement the recommendations of the study and you will have a detailed list of at least energy related projects. In this case you would likely have to pay a small fee as it appears that you have no intention of implementation.