it is the board's prerogative to assess (recapture) the STAR credit. i have been on my board for 5 years and we have assessed it 3 out of 5 years. in essence, it's a more painless way to raise money than raising maintenance or assessing.

This so called "prerrogative" (not spelled in any Proprietary Lease that I know of) is nothing but a licence to steal and defraud the taxpayers of the State of New York. This constitutes just plain, in your face THEFT, accepted and submitted to by sheep directors who use their omnipotent powers to serve the interest of the sponsors and the managing agents. Coops are enclaves of medieval totalitarian dictatorships run by the Sponsor and the Managing Agent, for their profits. Directors are selected precisely because they are financially illiterate, full of vanity and greed, and abject submissive servants of their overlord. They are lackeys, not leaders.
I fully agree and enthusiastically support the idea of a COOPERATIVE COUNCIL OF OWNERS. I thought of creating something similar, PRO SHAREHOLDERS RIGHTS, Let's continue refining this idea.
Rosa, the directors have FIDUCIARY DUTIES, meaning they are in a position of trust to handle other people's moneys (ours) and serve the interest of the people who have entrusted them with their money.

if you would like to make an intelligent comment, first spell 'prerogative' correctly. and i would beg to differ. i am the president of a board of a well run building with good financials. i work my butt off to keep our building in good shape (physically and financially). i don't get anything for it except the peace of mind that i am protecting my investment as well as the investments of the other owners.

it makes eminent sense to assess the STAR credit and keep the maintenance down a point. buyers look at maintenance increases and significant increases year on year drive buyers away.

i think this site has the potential for great dialogue and learning - it's distressing to me that people like Carmen who have other agendas in mind clutter it up with rude, unhelpful, uneducated, misinformed diatribes.

Eminent sense? I would call it theft...defrauding the taxpayers of the State of New York, and deceiving the "potential buyers", those misguided fools who still have not awaken to the Coop calamity. This is a massive deception of the American people, and sooner or later will be investigated by the US Attorney for fraudulent & deceptive business practices..
You are are self-righteous and delusional, Mr. board president who doesn't get paid (regretably?). My "agenda" is the same as yours: to preserve my investment and keep a roof over my head.

Why don you identify yourself, Mr. ABCDE? Are you ashamed of being identified as a member of the Abominable Coop Board, a monstrosity in this country of democratic institutions? Are you one of those foreign born, who comes from Rumania, or Burlgaria, or Ukrania, those countries from the former Soviet block, who never knew any democracy, and cannot undertand our democratic system of owning property? I have met several of these types among sponsors, managing agents, real estate advisors...and most of them end up fleeing to Israel.

Carmen you may called it theft but Board members call it wise planning. If we weren't able to use these funds towards operating expenses we would need to raise the maintenance fees to make up for the shortfall. If keeping our buildings running properly and paying our bills is an "agenda" and "self serving" then yes, I for one will try not to be offended by those labels. Perhaps you would be happier in a rental apartment where the tenants have no say at all. Your comments above are bullying and racist and serve no purpose except to forward your agenda. This is a forum for us "naive" board members to share information and ideas and educate ourselves on how to run our buildings better both economically and socially and so you are preaching to the wrong crowd. Go find another place to spew your venom. This is not place for bullies and racists.

"...Give us your tax benefits, otherwise we'll have to raise the maintenance" Oh, what a terrible prospect, Lord have mercy! I have this lame puerile threat a million times from all politicos to whom I reported these illegal appropriations of our money, including "oil surcharges" in perpetuity extended to all year round. "What, would you prefer that they raise the maintenance instead?" they exclaim in horror, as if we were talking about a contageous decease, or the firing squad.
My answer is: WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?. Since it all end up coming out of our pockets anyway, whether you call it maintence increase, or permanent assessments (illegal), or fuel surcharges, or approppriation of the shareholders' abatements and tax exemptions. Calling it by another name does not alter the fact that these are concealed increases in maintenance, and a deceptive maneuver to entrap fools, and delude the shareholders into believing that their rent is not going up. A con game.

And now, the punch blow: WHAT' SO TRAGIC ABOUT INCREASING THE MAINTENANCE ? The maintenance amount is not something fixed in concrete that can never be erased or removed once decreed; it may be DECREASED just as well, or even entirely suppressed (in Coops that have outside income, and no debt). They are flexible amounts, like taxes: they can be INCREASED OR DECREASED, according to the needs of the budget. One year may go up, another year may go down. This is determined by the guys doing the budget.
Who are these guys? The managing agent, of course, following directives from the Sponsor and the Coop lobby. The "directors", who are usually financially illiterate (otherwise, they would not be allowed in the board) meekly accept these directives - they have nothing to loose: they are anonymous and unaccountable. This is the root of all the evils of the Coop Calamity: the omnipotent, inscrutable, irresponsible, and unaccountable Coop board, a bunch of sheep who had been handed power of life and death over the shareholders. Liken handling outomatic weapons to children.

Chriss, identify yourself, and your coop, so we can investigate further. I am collecting data, trying to ascertain the aproximate total amount of stealing of the tax payers's moneys being perpetrated in the coops, to inform all the Consumer Fnancial Fraud Protection agencies set up by the government. These are staggering amounts. Our managing agent drives a Jaguar, our super owns 4 apartments and 2 cars, a BMW and a Mercedes....these people are not poor, they are enriching themselves off the backs of the miserable downtrodden shareholders, and contributing to the collapse of the coop system in NYC (which will happen a few years down the road).
Shareholders: please examiine your financial statements, and send me data about HOW MUCH specifically is being confiscated in your coop out of abatements, STAR exemptions, and other senior benefits and tax breaks. I am collecting statistics, for my data base, and I pledge to preserve your anonymity. g5grosof@outlook.com - Concerned Citizens for Coop Reform

Rosa and Geri, believe me I don't disagree with many of the things you say but I believe you have picked the wrong forum to say them. The very name Board Talk should tell you that you are dealing with board members who are not going to like being lumped together as the crooks or naive idiots you seem to think we all are. I live in a Coop that is owned by the shareholders, there are only a few sponsor apartments left, and the board members live here and are known to everyone.
I got on my board because I believed, through items in the minutes, that our managing agent was either a bad businessman or stealing our money. It turned out he was stealing. It took a long time to convince the majority of the Coop Board that this fellow who they trusted for years would steal from them. Eventually we were lucky to get rid of him and have a new managing agent in place right before his misdeeds came to light.
You are correct that Coops are run by all kinds of people many without business backgrounds and vulnerable to all kinds of problems. They are stuck with aging properties that the landlords were lucky to get off their hands before they had to pay for the repairs, and budgets that have to be increased yearly because heating costs, water, taxes and staff expenses are constantly rising while our shareholder salaries are not. This is why we need Board Talk as the resource to board members that it was meant to be.
While I have a business background I had to learn this particular business and Habitat and this forum are resources that enable me to do so. We need this forum to discuss and educate ourselves. Please let us have it back while you continue your crusade elsewhere.

The best way for board members to learn is to hear from the abuse and fraud that is going on. Also that they could end up in jail by violating their duries to us the shareholders. You are lucky has a few apts. In my coop, like most coop from the 80's, the aponsor owns more that 50%. He is running a business at our expense. Yes the landlord wanted to avoid rent regulions and created the coops. Took our money but kept more than 50%. He still control any decion in the coops. Then he created a management company and manage the coop with a one way contract that only benefit him. We have a president for life who only protect the sponsor interest. We need laws and the AG and DA to get involve. We are not second class citizens. We need protection under the law. Register in COOPABUSE.COM to get protection for our home. Also email me ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM. Chris you learn from the people not from the abuser.

Chris, thanks so much for your spot-on reply (below) to Rosa and Jerry. No one disputes that there are bad and sleazy board members out there, but those are exactly the people who are NOT going to be coming to Board Talk for discussion. The board members who contribute here are those interested in performing their unpaid and often thankless jobs *better*, not people asking how they can more effectively embezzle funds to pay for their new Rolls-Royce.

As for the abatement/assessment issue, refer to the discussion on this Board Talk thread: http://www.habitatmag.com/Board-Talk/Assessments-and-smart-planning. (note that the period at the end is part of the URL).

To quote one of my own comments on that thread, "It's perfectly fair either way - and shareholders will pay basically the same amount of money in both cases - but it's difficult to explain to shareholders and you're bound to annoy some people no matter how you do it."

Chris, I am a shareholder and believe me I would love to rent. Renters have rights we do not. We paid for buying a membership in a coop where we get abused and influentially destroy. Shareholders are given a proprietary lease which have an expiration date. On this date we have to return the apt to the coop. They claimed the expiration date would be extended but it is not guarantee. So what do we have. Our children can't inherit the apt. They have to pay a lot of money to stay in th apt; it is like buying it again. Shareholders need to wake up. We were sold the George Washington Bridge. They borrow so much money that banks are reluctant to lend money to coop buyers. People buying coops have to pay all cash or take a loan from a abusive bank. We don't have anything. We were shown a apartment as a home but we were sold a membership in a club where we are abused and our money is taken. REGISTER IN COOPABUSE.COMto fight together and get protection for our home. Also email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM

chris, thank you, thank you, thank you for what you said.

rosa nazar, get your personal agenda off of here. you comment on EVERY thread i read and NEVER ever have anything substantive to say. it's all about your own agenda. ditto Carmen.

if you want to continue to spew this nonsense go set up your own page. leave this to people who want to get useful information.

to abcde,
the basic agenda here is to overcome dated, undemocratic co-op laws that allow predators opportunity. i know there are good co-op board members because there were many in my previous co-op.
now, as a shareholder in a co-op with a corrupt managing agent and co-op lawyer who easily bamboozle a naive board into money making lawsuits for 'our' lawyer, i appreciate the information posted here.
your explanation of assessing of STAR is helpful. but
your attack on the posts here, especially with petty mentions of misspelling, bring your motives into question.

Mr. Board president, I hope you are not a president for life. I found difficult to believe that somebody who is not getting anything in return wants to stay doing such a difficult job. We need transparency and we are a movement to bring reform and eliminate and send to jail the abuser. You need to come to reality and see it as it is the coop was a fraud from the beginning. We have no laws that protects our home. People with no mortgage are the main target especially if they are old. Perhaps you should look at COOPABUSE.COM to read about the horror coop stories. We are not keeping silent any more. So if you are such a dedicated president open the books to all shareholders, be transparents and make sure nobody is commining fraud and if they are make sure you bring them to justice. Email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM and register at COOPABUSE.COM to be part make sure laws are change to protect our home. We can loose our free-mortgage home just for owing a fee dollars and because boards and managent add usury charges. This has to stop and we are going to stop it.

First in this coop i wrote of, the STAR money gets paid to the people every month, so the coop does not get a penny of it, that is why i was questioning seeing it as income on the budget sheets. The building takes the lump sum and doles it out monthly, however other coops with the same managing company that have owners , not full of subleasers.do noy let that happen, and they take the lump sum
If the coop is withjolding the STAR and keeping it, i believe the real estate company would lose its license, and the BOD would be charged for theft

The suggestion to find a lawyer to handle a class action against the AG’s office should be looked into – I am sure there are hungry lawyers out there and anyone who filed a complaint with AGs office could be counted.

Yes we need a class action law suit. We are the only Americans who do not have protection for our family home. This is because the real state lobbies make sure they protect the coop interest not our (sponsor still own more than 50% in most coops). In my coop the management company was a company of the sponsor (remember the landlord who converted his building to coop to avoid NYC rent regulations of the 70's). One day, we manage to removed the president for life, and when the new president questioned why some checks were being paid from our coop accounts, the management company cancel our contract immediately (but only for the shareholders, they are still here managing the renting business of the sponsor who still own more than 50% of our coop). We are Americans without home rights. A home is a human right. Yes we need to keep fighting to get our freedom but we can only do it together. NO WE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. That is what politicians try to tell us "you are an isolated incident". Why don't you take a look of our website COOPABUSE.COM so you can see by yourself. As a matter of fact every time I post something I get a few emails from abused shareholders who join our cause. As a matter of fact we are looking for a lawyer to take our class action case against the estate and maybe attorney general because we are the only American who has no right to protect our home in bankruptcy court, housing court and they failed to act no matter how much we complained. Maybe they will listen to us in court. Any lawyer or anybody who wants to know more about us email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM

There are 30 claims needed for class action - not very many when you count all the corrupt buildings and the amount of units in each one.

Seems like there are many incorrect statements happening here.

Stop and think - would you rather pay another point or 2 in maintenance or have your STAR assesses? Assume that assessing STAR gets your building $20,000 and that you would pay a 2% maintenance increase if your building did not assess. If your maintenance is $1000, yes, your maintenance increase, on a yearly basis, would be slightly less than the STAR assessment.

BUT - two factors, your 2% is year on year, so the next year, your increase is higher because of that 2% AND - buyers aren't concerned about the STAR assessment - they are concerned about maintenance.

ROSA, there is no conspiracy. Well-run buildings make the right decision when they assess STAR. You are misleading people with your rant and your rhetoric.

It is not mandatory that there is a increase every year. That is why we are a coop not a rental. Howeverr, in most coops the holder of unsold share is running a rental business at our expense. His tenants do not have to be approve by the board. Who do you think waste more water and call mere for repairs? Well the tenants of the HUS and we paid for it. In my coop one board member dare to confront this and to question the coop finantial and they destroyed her by intimidating her. We are not free till the HUS is less than 10%. We are second class citizens leaving under a dictatorship. We were promise a community enviroment but it was only a promise. We were shown a home for sale but we bought a certicate of share or better said a membership to a place where we could be abused. Time for the AG to get involved. Time for a class action law sue. Look at COOPABUSE.COM and register to be part of the coop reform. Also email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM