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Wheelchair Ramps - Boerum Feb 22, 2010


We just had a resident come down with a devastating disease that has quickly required the use of a power wheelchair. We have a low step but no ramp at the entrance. Does anyone know of a source for a temporary ramp that can be used for a power chair? The ones found by our agent are rather flimsy and/or too long. A permanenet ramp seems to be a big deal.
Thank you.

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http://www.bestpriceatvs.com/product.php?productid=16788&cat=265&page=1

Here is a site for Folding Portable Aluminum Ramps used for wheelchairs.

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Good for you for acting so quickly on behalf of your resident.

This is a good source: http://www.rampsforliving.com/

They have various kinds of ramps that you can see on their website & we found them very caring.

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it would be a good idea to check with united spinal. they are in queens ny .
united spinal org
They know all the ins and outs.
the slope and rise is a big consideration

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The NYC Commission on Human Rights is the office to call for the information. They are very helpful - call Harvey Fisher at 718-722-3133 or email him at: hfisher@cchr.nyc.gov. Or Ted Finkelstein, same phone number.

They will also send you literature about the regulations and provide guidance, but can't recommend vendors or contractors.

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Board Member Recusal from Vote? - MR Feb 21, 2010


We had a Board Members vote on whether or not to refinance our building early for much more than our current mortgage in order to pay some debts and future improvements.Our current loan is good for another three years.

At the meeting, it was revealed that two of the five members on the Board will be moving within the year. Is it proper for them to be voting on an issue as important as this one, which will increase our debt twofold when they are selling their shares so soon? Is it a conflict of interest? They do not want to discuss it with Shareholders beforehand. The vote was 4 to 1, I abstained as I do not feel we have enough information and, as treasurer, I have questions about the details of the refi they are going to greenlight. What should I do?

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Dear MR,

Your question is a tough one for the same reason you feel uncomfortable with the new mortgage – lack of information. A building generally has four ways to fund capital repairs: sell treasury stock (owned units); assess; use operating excesses; and borrow.

Loan rates are generally low right now. So, is the fee for paying off the old mortgage early less than the savings on the interest rates minus the new loan fees? If so and in my opinion, then it could be a good deal. If not, then I would question it if no urgent life/safety repairs are needed.

Also in my opinion, the loan balance is not generally that important (though it can give one sticker-shock) except if the building is reaching the point where it can't borrow anymore. I would look more closely at the proposed monthly payments – can the building afford these would be the more relevant question?

In my opinion, if you are Treasurer and you are not informed of the terms and fully understand them - this gives me great concern.

Regarding conflict of interest: many times the collective building's interest and the individual interest of a shareholder/board member are aligned. I would say that if the 'future improvements' include life/safety repairs or cost saving repairs they would probably be fine. However, if the repairs are entirely cosmetic (a lobby re-do, for example) which might drive up the value of their units prior to sale you may have a point. However, even here if it drives up everyone's value, it still could be valid.

My suggestion would be to become more comfortable with the loan terms. In my opinion, this will allow you to make a more informed decision. I would also place a call to your corporate Lawyer and CPA to obtain their opinions on the matter.

Good Luck!

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This refi is actually being done to pay off huge legal bill that blind-sided us. Does that change your very well reasoned and sound advice?

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Dear MR,

Thank you for the information. I don't know the circumstances surrounding how the legal bill legal bill was incurred however it sounds like your co-op does not have sufficient reserves to cover the amount due. I would never recommend capitalizing, into a mortgage, legal fees unless they were associated with getting the new mortgage/property/building.

It would help at this point to see the corporation's most recent Audited Financial Statements. I have made my e-mail address public. You can e-mail them to me if you want. I am President and former Treasurer of my Co-op. My Co-op's Audited Financial Statements are publicly available at: http://www.naborsapts.org/purchasers/key-documents/

My background is that I work in the Accounting Field with a very large pension fund with over $3 billion in assets.

Regarding the activities of your two Board members who want to sell in a year or so, it is possible that they are trying to keep the cash needs of the corporation low (either assessments or maintenance) in order to increase either the value of their units or the speed at which they might obtain a sale. There could also be other legitimate reasons too. If their reasoning is at odds with fiscal prudence, there could be conflict however a lawyer would need to be consulted.

Steve

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I think Steve's advice is excellent--particularly about not capitalizing non-mortgage-related legal fees--but I differ on 1 point: "if their reasoning is at odds with fiscal prudence," as he theorizes, then the question about conflicts of interest is moot. You're the Treasurer, & your responsibility is to the shareholders, not to the Board. You don't need a legal opinion...you need common sense & a conscience.

Your own judgment here is what matters, & refinancing is NOT an issue on which a Treasurer can legitimately abstain. If you still lack info you feel essential to reach a decision [which is particularly disturbing, since you should be the point person on this task], you must oppose. Whether you simply vote "no" or work to find better terms &/or alternative financing depends on your building's circumstances, & we don't have enough detail.

However, if you're not convinced that the financing package makes sense, voting against--when you know you're alone in opposition & the vote will carry--is not enough. You have suspicions about this deal, & about the motivation of some of your fellow Board members, or you wouldn't have posted here. You probably can't consult building counsel, whether because the attorney is in the pocket of the Board President, or for the simple fact that the attorney's large & unexpected bill [it would sure help to know more about this] is what put you in the financial bind that started all this.

Seems to me that you can responsibly choose between: a] carefully bringing this entire issue to the shareholders, expressing your concerns; b] resigning, publicly explaining your discomfort with the loan, etc.; c] resigning quietly. Of course, once you make your decision, discussing it in advance with the Board may cause them to rethink & open a new path to resolution...

It sounds like there's a lot more going on here than just the refi issue, but if you boil it down, that's what counts...& you can fight it, or quit.


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SPECIAL SHAREHOLDERS MEETING - D Feb 19, 2010


A letter just went around the building from the majority board members that we want removed. It states the following: The purpose of this memorandum is to reiterate that the Special Shareholders election ("it was not an election, it was to remove")to vote whether to remove or not remove 4 members of the Board, specially ---,---,---,---,resulted in one member being removed, ----, and the other 3 members remaining on the Board. ("first of all our petition read to remove four members, when they saw they lost in a plurality vote, they applied the cumulative method to remove only one member in which they, the three remaining members voted the same person back on the Board two weeks later".

to continue the letter: Please be assured that the Board of Directors has confirmed via counsel that the cumulative voting method to elect or remove Directors is in fact established via the By-Laws("now they refer to the By-Laws, not the BCL as they did at the meeting"). Issues voted upon at a meeting other then the election or removal of Board members can be elected by means of a plurality.

In fact, counsel advises that based upon the number of shares voting against removal, in relation to the shares present, it appears that the shareholders voting against removal had sufficient votes to keep all 4 Directors, had they elected to do so. ("we collected 54% of shares through proxies including attendance at the meeting, they had only 42%, what are they comparing?").

Therefore, subsequent to the January 28th. meeting, the Board appointed Mr.----- to serve until the next Annual Election pursuant to section 3 of the By-Laws.

Our argument is according to our By-Laws which they only addressed part of the process to remove, they did not address the bottom part of the Statue which contains: That they MAY vote HIS SHARES cumulative for election or removal, ("MAY", is an alternative), "alternative to what, Plurality"?) it is plausible that plurality precedes. All elections shall be determined by a plurality vote and unless other wise specified in these By-Laws or the Certificate of Incorporation the affirmative vote of a majority represented at any meeting of Shareholders shall be necessary for the transaction of any item of business (other than election of Directors) and shall constitute the act of the Shareholders. There shall be NO CUMULATIVE VOTING(pG 232, SEC 5, BY LAWS).

It was not established at the Special Shareholders Meeting or in the proxy how the voting process will be decided. When the opposing attorney for the building saw that the vote was not going their way at the time of the count they changed the rules for their benefit against the will of the majority of the Shareholders that voted. Being that the method of voting was not established on the proxy before hand and based upon the language of the proxy the logical conclusion is that the Shareholders were at no time made aware of the method to be used to calculate their shares voted or allocated, this meeting was to remove all four members and not individually, therefore, it was understood at the signing of the proxy that the method to be used was plurality, to remove all retained.


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Special Shareholders Meeting - D Feb 18, 2010


We recently had a Special Shareholders meeting. We counted the votes and when the attorney for the building, Mr. Karl Bikhman saw that his clients were losing by plaurality, he than stated the BCL and bypassed the By-Laws. The BCL read as he stated that if the election was counted as Culmative than the Special Shareholders Meeting should count that way too. Our By-Laws clearly states that the meeting should be voted as plaurality and that the majority shares is needed to remove the four members as petitioned. Mr. Bikhman only allowed one Board member to be removed and two weeks later replaced him back to the Board because the other three that were left on the Board had a majority on their team. The Board is comprised of 5 vs. 3, they had five in collusion and we had three opposed to the five. We now want to go back to Supreme Court and let the Judge render a decision. The reason we are going back to court is because when we had 30% of Shareholders calling the Special Shareholders meeting the Secretary and the Attorney refused to acknowledge our demand for the meeting and we than had to hire a private attorney Mark Hankin of Hankin and Maisel, in which he allowed Mr. Bikhman to take charge of the decision, without due diligence of our Black Book in which was in his possession since August of 2009. What help of advise can anyone give us, the Board is corrupt,our money is dwindling, decisions are only in favor of those who support them. The list goes on and on, it is almost impossible to live under these fascism dictatorship, we feel as if Resbuton is back as our President, Hitler as the Treasure, Stalin as the Secretary and Machiavelli as the Vice President.

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More than likely your apt. corporation was formed under the BCL of New York, so the BCL will take precedence over your by-laws. But you should be reading your Prop. Lease and running all questions by the attorney you hired.

Also, it's "Cumulative" and "Rasputin."

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Thanks Westchester for the correction. Certain statues in the bylaws reccomend that you go to the BCL instructing to go to the page,clause etc. But, our bylaws clearly states the majority votes can remove,it does not refer to the BCL to elaborate the law. Thank you for your advise, I told our attorney your advise.
I appreciate your help and any other suggestions you may have.

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board has turned coop into investment building - escapefromyonkers Feb 17, 2010


i was a shareholder at the conversion oer 25 years ago. i was a board member during the first 10 years. The board always kept the ratio of shareholder to subtenent/unsold shares at a strict 20% magamum to ensure the financialaqnd skin in the game wellbeing of the co-op.
I have found out that many of the new people that have moved into the buiding are not shareholders. but children,grandchilren of the shareholder. The shareholder never moved in and the board with the approval and support of the manging compsany has promoted this. A couiple of the board mebers, are directly involved. Board members we assumed were shareholders were actually violators of the proprietary lease"par 14". We knew which apartments were unsold shares. Found out from a disgusted board member this previously undisclosed information. Ine of the new Board members bought two apartments, both 1 bedrooms and moved his adult children in.
i Am trying to do a count, but ti know the real owner occupuied apsartmernts are possible lessw than 50%. I couldn'tfigure out why more new owners ( i assumed) were not getting involved in the running of the co-op. There were no owner occupiers.
The presdienr is also violating the proprietary lease par:14, he and his wife no longer live in the building, his son occupies their apartment.
the addresses on the BOD voting profiles for the last 10 years list the coops adrress as their address.
At this years annual meeting i asked for the board members contact information to be posted someplace in the building or in the minutes or in a memo, one board member stated she refused to have her info given out, the rest remained mute, and my request along with other request for transparency were ignored and not in the minutes.
This is only one of a multiple of large problems that i have uncovered since a flag went off when a $27k mathematical error in the 2007 budget caused by a dropped zero was not told to the shareholders until after the 2008 election in which the president was running.
I have questioned the BOD president in the 2009 annual meeting, as to when the budget error was discovered, he refuses to give a answer. The board member i spoke to said he was not informed of the budget error until the week of the annual meeting. the president is super controlling and
doesn't share info with the BOD, yet they do nothing to correct this.

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We cleared up the messes in our building with Shareholder EmaiPower. Communication with the other Shareholders is vital, and by starting to, in a businesslike manner, ask direct questions, to both the board and MangCo, in Email, (cc: those not on email with hard copies, will create an Email trail -- which -- if your MangCo or lawyer is smart -- they will recognize and you will give the power BACK to the Sh.

What do your bylaws say in regard to the children etc. In ours, the sponsor nor thier family is allowed to live in the apartment. But, for SH, their children, parents and siblings may live in the apartment.

It takes courage -- but if you start to keep everyone informed, document everything and send out emials and hard copies to everybody -- you will get results. VP

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actually i havent found any by laws, i have the proprietary lease and house rules, but i looked and never saw any bylaws.

In many of the co-op articles i have read, there was a nys court ruling that upheld the wording of the proprietary lease concerning the occupancy of shareholder apartments, specifically paragraph 14 of my proprietary lease states that the shareholder "AND" etc,
It doesn not say "OR"
The key word being AND.
i have read on quite a few NY co-op discussions that Boards have been successful in evicting family members that were living in the apartments without the shareholders due to the proprietary lease.
If i was buying an apartment here today, i would be thinking fraud, if i was told the building was 80 percent owner occupied.

in one case the occupant is a real problem , the non-shareholder occupant has caused extensive noise/ water flooding/ physical harassment for over 5 years for the downstairs shareholder. The board and management company refuse to do anything, i have heard them state at the annual meeting that it is this shareholders problem, not the buildings or co-ops
My take, is the occupant should never have been allowed to move in, It was known at the beginning that he was not the person that went to the interview, it was his mother.
A new twist was added yesterday, I spoke to the shareholder, he said that the mother/shareholder is a friend of the board member that does the interviews. i do not doubt the claim that the mother is a friend.

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thinking back, there were quite a few prospective buyers who the board turned down. However after one or two board turn-downs, the board allowed these people to buy, who were never planning on moving in, since their adult children moved in.
All violations of the proprietary lease, and really screwed the building up as far as owner involvement.
doesnt seem like they did their fiduciary duty to the building, they just self dealt themselves to the detriment of the building.

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aggression - G K Feb 14, 2010


We’ve got a bit of a problem here in the building. Three people (four, if you count one who moved away) have felt threatened by a particular SH.

The incidents occur one-on-one. Full disclosure, I am one of the four people and I did manage to record one of the incidents on my iPhone. I also still have a threatening email from this SH to me.

The only language I can find in the prop lease that would seem to address a problem like this is folded into the section on noise: “No Lessee shall make or permit any disturbing noises in the Building or do or permit anything to be done therein that will interfere with the rights, comfort or convenience of other Lessees.” (Emphasis mine.)

Recently a building resident alerted a board member to a disturbing encounter she had had with this SH. This board member shared the communication with the rest of the board. (I am on the board.) I recommended that the board at least document that it had received this email, or add the email to the record. For this I was vociferously voted down and even accused of having an agenda against the SH in question.

I find it unusual that a number of people in the building have had disturbing one-on-one encounters with this particular SH. I also find it unusual that a number of people in the building refuse to communicate with him verbally (only in writing).

What, if anything, can be done in a situation like this? What recourse do people have? What is the best plan of action, if any? Frankly I find it a bit alarming, but perhaps all buildings have situations like this. Mind you, I haven’t heard of things like this going on in other buildings.

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Check the proprietary lease for objectionable conduct and document all incidents. You may be able to terminate the lease.

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Thank you. Very helpful. Yes, I had forgotten, our prop lease does contain a clause about objectionable conduct:
Lessee’s Objectionable Conduct
If at any time the Lessor shall determine, upon the affirmative vote of two-thirds of its then Board of Directors, at a meeting duly called for that purpose, that because of objectionable conduct on the part of the Lessee, or of a person dwelling or visiting in the apartment, repeated after written notice from Lessor, the tenancy of the Lessee is undesirable . . . Although I think it would be extraordinarily messy (and, I think, divisive and not good for the building) to try to terminate the lease, at least there is some language that addresses objectionable conduct and perhaps gives us a little more leverage to document instances of the SH’s erratic behavior.

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Oh, I meant to add: I think it would be great if we could terminate the lease. I just don’t think it would fly. It’s difficult enough to get people to join forces to call the SH out on his aggressive behavior.

But, if we have language in the prop lease that gives us a little leverage to at least document such instances — which really seem to be part of a pattern, not isolated — and could perhaps have the management company address the incidents in writing, that might be enough of a deterrent to curb the behavior. Knock on wood.

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Our building just went through a similar problem: be aware it is very costly in legal fees to vote someone off the island. We received a legal bill equal to the mortgage of our building. All the articles about Pullman succeeding and finding the right wording in your PROP lease, who is right or wrong, does not seem to matter in the end. It sill costs a lot of money, depending on how unreasonable the offending party is and how much money they have to fight back. Good luck.

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I completely agree with you, Newbie; see my response just above yours.

That’s why I think some sort of social pressure could be so effective. Continuing to ignore the behavior or sweep it under the rug sends the wrong message. It reinforces the behavior and in fact makes us complicit in it. Most people in the building dislike or fear this guy but he has a core of three or four loyalists who enable him. If one of these otherwise intelligent people were finally to step forward and call him out and/or if the management company were to send him a letter, that could perhaps be effective in curbing the behavior. Absent that, I think he will simply continue to operate according to his own rules. Worst case scenario, things could escalate.

On the one hand I want to say that he can’t control his behavior. On the other, though, he seems to act one way in a one-on-one situation, and a different way when more than one other person is present. That suggests that he has some idea of what most people consider right vs. wrong and is at least somewhat capable of modulating his behavior. He still acts erratic in the presence of several people, but there doesn’t seem to be any threatening language or intimidating behavior in those cases. Which is perhaps why most people tend to characterize him as merely “abrasive”. He’s far beyond abrasive, alas.

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As this chain has progressed it sounds more and more that this is a problem requiring a political/social solution rather than a legal one. It does not sound like there are grounds for a termination, even if you have the funds and the stomach for the battle. That being said, I don't think that inappropriate behavior should be tolerated and it should be documented in a letter to the offender. Keep in mind that the victims of his abuse may not feel comfortable with being named but they should be encouraged to go on record.

We have had similar instances with threats between shareholders that even had witnesses. We presented our attorney with the information who strongly recommended that the victim file a police report. Unless the victim of the abuse is willing to file a complaint you are limited in what you can do. I personally do not believe in making empty and idle threats, so once again documentation is critical. When I reach the point of making a threat, I have every intention of following through with it unless the behavior changes. Otherwise they quickly learn that there are no consequences to their abuse and there are no reasons to stop.

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It's important to bear in mind that all the documentation in the world and witnesses may not help circumvent a horrendous legal and psychological nightmare that can go on for years in your co-op. You may not end up recouping your legal costs either, because sometimes you don't get to go to court and get the unit back sans the offensive shareholder. There could be a settlement that is not enough to cover your legal costs. I'd be curious to hear any other Board Talk experience involving terminating a lease and if they in fact covered their expenses. I'm not saying that nothing should be done about the offending SH, but it's not a clear cut path from the first OB letter to a Pullman eviction and your co-op may be in for a costly surprise.

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Yes, West Cty Board Member is correct - most leases have a clause citing "Objectionable Conduct" which outlines what actions the board and the shareholders may take. What constitutes "Objectionable Conduct" is not specifically defined so it is critical that you document everything and provide copies to your attorney. If you have witnesses to the behavior, have them provide a written account. I do not know what type of behavior this shareholder is engaged in; however if you feel threatened, file a police report.

This type of behavior occurs more frequently than you may realize and there is no quick solution, but carefully building a case through documentation is critical. Of course if the board is unwilling to take any action, that makes it more difficult but an email, whether they like it or not, IS a record. Why is your board afraid to stand up to this particular shareholder?

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Thanks so much for your response, Prez.

Why are most board members afraid to stand up to this particular SH? Wish I knew. He was the board president for a few years a while back and still seems to believe he has some position of authority or even ownership over the building. He has a very paternalistic demeanor which rubs most people the wrong way but perhaps appeals to those who have father-figure issues or who are exceptionally insecure and vulnerable to that sort of thing. Also, heaven help us, he is on the community board, so perhaps people tend to view him as being particularly plugged into the local power structure, or as having some influence.

And I think most people, myself included, simply want to lead quiet lives and are reluctant to get drawn into the firestorms that often seem to surround this guy.

The current situation is quite complicated. The resident who tried to alert one board member via email that she had had what she called a “frightening” encounter with our former board president is actually a sublessee, not a shareholder. From what I am able to determine, the incident appears to have been retaliatory: the sublessee told several people in the building, and also the former management company and the realtor handling her lease, that she had been told by former board president that the co-op’s sublet policy did not apply to her situation, that the shareholder who owns the apartment had effectively been grandfathered in because he already had an agreement in place when the new policy was introduced. Although it wasn’t particularly controversial at the time, for various reasons too complicated to go into, this has suddenly become controversial. The former board president now denies having said this and, by all accounts, is quite upset that the sublessee relayed her understanding of the situation to others.

Allegedly, the former board president cornered the sublessee a couple of weeks ago in the building vestibule, blocking her from exiting the building. He allegedly raged at her and said that she had caused him great harm and had made him “look bad” by telling others that they had had this conversation. After she started crying, he then supposedly told her: “Look, it’s not you that the board is after, it’s the owner of the apartment. You and your daughter are just caught in the crosshairs.” She said that, given the context, she found this metaphor very upsetting and communicated to the SH that she wanted to exit the building.

Because she is a sublessee and not a shareholder, she didn’t know whom to turn to about this and was afraid that reporting it could further jeopardize her situation in the building. Admittedly if I were in her position I wouldn’t know what recourse I had, if any. I suppose she could go to the police, but let me tell you: in an atmosphere of drug dealing, violent muggings and illegal gun sales, I dare say the police have bigger fish to fry.

A fellow board officer was quite emphatic that unless the SH pointed a gun at the sublessee, we shouldn’t follow up on the sublessee’s mention of an incident. This colleague also accused me of having an agenda because I recommended that the board at least make some sort of notation of the reported incident. As a shareholder myself and as someone who has a financial stake in this co-op, I am appalled to hear about such things going on in the building and find it, if true, unacceptable. Note that I am careful to say “if true”. But because I and others have been on the receiving end of this guy’s attempts to intimidate and bully, I can’t help but lean toward believing that what the sublessee reported is, indeed, true.

If objecting to this sort of behavior in our co-op and wanting to at least document it means that I have an agenda, well…

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The Pullman decision rears its head yet again. Yes, it's true that you can terminate a shareholder's lease and shares for objectionable conduct if your Proprietary Lease permits it. Sometimes a shareholder vote is required (the Pullman and Lapidus cases); sometimes a board vote alone is sufficient (the Michael Davis case and your own situation, to judge from the lease excerpt you quoted).

The good news is that you will ultimately recoup your legal fees once the objectionable shareholder is ejected and the apartment sold. The bad news is ... well, practically everything else. By all accounts, it's a long, horrible process that can drag on for years. You never EVER want to do this if you have any alternative. And you don't want your building to become known as a place that kicks out people unless you have a really good reason.

The critical issue if you're even vaguely considering a Pullman-style eviction is documentation. And more documentation. You can't have enough. The Michael Davis board-only eviction was upheld largely because the documentation was both compelling and voluminous. The board had tried for years to work with Davis, documenting every step meticulously. They finally gave up and booted him out.

If your board wants to sweep this under the rug and refuses to document anything officially, you might start doing it yourself, as you've already done with your iPhone. You might also talk to both your board and your attorney about the consequences of deliberately concealing a known problem. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like the board could be in a lot of trouble if this aggressive shareholder ends up hurting someone and the board was aware of the issue but tried to hide it.


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As I’ve said a couple times now, I would never try to head down the Pullman path. Quixotic, too expensive, too divisive.
. . . it seems like the board could be in a lot of trouble if this aggressive shareholder ends up hurting someone and the board was aware of the issue but tried to hide it.
Agree; this is a real concern and this is why I recommended that the board at least make a notation that a building resident had alerted a board member to a potential (alleged?) problem. Just a little note, with a date, nothing more, in case another event occurs in the future.

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Renegade Coop Board President - Joseph D Feb 14, 2010


I have ben living in a Coop Sherwood Village b ,this is one of the most incompetent people I have been with in my entire life so far ,they are unable to understand the word progress ,they believe in arnachy and dictating to others which had led to many financials disaster in our coop ,The Coop secretary is too busy making financials decision rather than concentrated on Coop files and making the bylaw is followed to it's principle,nobody is perfect in this world but the stupidity in my coop is beyond the norm of any human being.Our Board President cannot even managed the coop meeting let alone make a decent decison he thinks he own the coop making all decisions unilaterally and we as shareholders have to deal with the consequences,At the present we are trying to get the politicians who care enough to help us find a solution to eradicate the socio path of egotistical maniac ruinning everyone else investment,It does not matter who our managemnt company is anyone come in into our coop realized on the first day that they are dealing with a bunch of morons.So they decided to take full advantage they even made up falsify financials statement,they cannot tell the shareholders what happen with our tax abatement taking over the years but our coop secretary is driving a BMW with our coop money.

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Doggies - justwondering Feb 14, 2010


I live in a co-op with a no pet policy. However, permission was granted to those who had small dogs before we all became residents of this newly built coop back in 2004. However, lately, I'm seeing more dogs and bigger dogs. How can the policy be enforced? We have fees in place, but sensitive to enforce. And, I can only imagine an even worse scenario, what ever happened to Spot?

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We just passed a House Rule that there can only be three pets to an apartment. In our research we discovered that there are NYState laws protecting pet owners who had pets before rules were passed. They are automatically granfathered in...
HOWEVER
also in this law, if anyone has a NEW pet for more than three (or six, I cant remember) months -- and no one complains, it is automatically granfathered in. This is all on the NYState DOB site... This law was passed due to landlords harrassing tenets (usually elderly) who would rather move than part with their pets. As uncomfortable as it is, if you feel strongly about this issue and your neighbor gets a new pet -- you have to turn him/her in. (I own three pets) PS: Pets make happier neighbors: VP

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I say sensitive to act, because kids at some point in their growing years will pester their parents for a dog.

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As you stated you have dog policies but do/will not enforce them, here lies your problem. You either address the issue or forget it. In my Coop we have so called "house rules" but they mean nothing as when it comes to enforcing them our board are toothless.

Best of luck,

Bob

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Fees - justwondering Feb 14, 2010


What is a good policy for "flip" tax, especially when you want to incoporate grandfathering in a coop? Most owners are original (bldg 2004). We had about 5 sales since.

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We have had a flip tax in place for the past 18 years and it has paid for virtually all of our capital improvements over the years so I am a great believer. Since every share must be treated equally, ours is based on dollars per share which I think is the fairest way to implement it.

The only sales that I would grandfather are those that are already in the pipeline when the the flip tax is proposed; however you could consider making the effective date far enough out that anyone wanting to sell just to avoid it could do so.

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grandfathering - G K Feb 13, 2010


Hello,

I have read what I could find in past messages about boards creating new policy and grandfathering. I am ambivalent about grandfathering and I wonder if there is any widely accepted best practice or law that could offer guidance as we (my fellow board officers and I) consider the pros and cons.

Buying into a co-op is a tremendous investment. It is the largest investment many of us will ever make. It is a huge life decision. I can understand why grandfathering would make sense and would be the fairest course of action in certain cases.

Say a TV producer buys into a co-op. He pays careful attention to what the sublet policy is, because his work requires him to be in New York for long periods of time, and then in California for long periods of time. He loves the building and wants it to be his permanent base, but also anticipates possibly needing to sublet for several years at a stretch. The prop lease stipulates that shareholders must occupy their apartments for two years, after which time they may sublet. There is no time limit placed on subletting. Our hypothetical TV producer happily lives in his apartment for several years, after which time he is offered work on a show in California. He accepts the offer and starts making plans to sublet. Around this time, the board decides to impose a sublet limit of three years, after which time shareholders must either move back into their apartments or sell. Because the TV producer has no guarantee that his work obligations in California will end in under three years (the program may last four years, five years), he feels forced into a position where he has to sell his apartment.

In this case, because the investment is so enormous, the fairest thing to do, it seems to me, is to grandfather. Otherwise, it is almost as if one party has broken a contract. Agree? Disagree? If you disagree, can you tell me why?

Or, say a man who loves cats and has always owned them and plans always to own them buys into a co-op. He carefully scrutinizes the prop lease, making sure that the buildings he looks at allow pets before making such a large investment/life decision. He buys into a pet-friendly building. After he purchases, the board decides to implement a no-pets policy. In this case, too, not to grandfather seems unfair and similar to breach of contract. I have heard of cases where a SH may be allowed to keep the current pet, but after that pet dies must abide by the new no-pet policy. This, too, seems unfair to me.

Basically, I have problems with policies that change the conditions of original purchase and that essentially force people into a position where they have to sell. I really believe that people prefer to have as much autonomy and flexibility as possible vis-à-vis a very considerable investment.

This is not to say that I prefer a lax environment with no limits. But I do think that boards sometimes cross the line between looking after the shareholders’s collective investment and infringing on personal autonomy, personal decision-making. Boards need to manage, indeed, but micromanaging can really backfire imho.

On the other hand, I am aware of what seems to be the golden rule of business law: treat all shareholders the same. I just don’t know if that is possible or ethical in the case of policy changes. Otherwise things could change whimsically from year to year and people would never really know where they stand, and might find it quite difficult to make major life decisions.

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Your right a housing investment is major decision of time, money and effort. When one chooses to purchase shares in the cooperative, they agree and accept the proprietary lease, house laws, and by-laws that govern shareholders and the corporation. At the time of purchase, a shareholder accepts the theoretical and applicable differences between owning property in a house, condominium property and shares of a cooperative.
Under NY State Business Rules, Board of directors is granted wide ranging powers to govern the corporation – focusing on equitable treatment of shareholders. Policy and governing document updates are controversial.
This year we updated our sublet policy as well - to include a time limit and fee; it was a change that had not been made since the 90’s. We didn’t grandfather anyone; rather we allowed a phase out over two years until the new rules were implemented for those with current sublets, meaning they received 2 years + the time limit. I want to avoid hypotheticals, to stay focused.
We made the policy change consistent with our governing documents. Our bylaws Article I states – the primary purposes of the corporation is to provide residences for shareholders who shall be entitled solely by reason of their ownership of shares to proprietary leases … We wanted to meet this standard, while allowing some flexibility by allowing more time, but not grandfathering. We wanted to set a new policy that would be consistently followed, allow all shareholders the same opportunity and terms for subletting, and to minimize legal and financial issues for the corporation as a whole.
On Grandfathering – it’s a difficult proposition. Board’s change, managing agents change, requirements change. As a board member, a goal we strive for that treats shareholders equitably is consistency in polices. Think of all the policy’s in effect in a co-op, from the move in/move out, - Parking – laundry room – sublet and pets, etc… If these policies are updated and grandfathering occurs for each policy – managing the corporation (which the board was elected to do) becomes considerably more difficult and time consuming.
Those not happy about the decision, should reach out to the board/managing agent and see if they will meet with you to discuss your concerns (no guarantee), sometimes there are factors behind a policy change which are not communicated clearly if at all. (If you want specifics let me know)

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I fully agree with this person on this bad clause being abuse by certain dictator who sat on coop for years claiming granfather clause as if they are entitled to privilege exclusively for them. for example at Sherwood Village B the coop Secretary established her own rules by unilaterally increases the amount of money ppaid when a shareholder is moving out but will exempt her when she decided to sell herself once I find out I told every shareholder who is concern to do the same that she did so we all can fall into the same category put up a sale disclosure even though we are not selling so we can get on the grandfather rule she has created to exploit our coop.Today because of all her bad rules for the past twenty years our coop is in the worst condition financially.She had a member of the Board who was selling her shares sitting on the Board interview of the new prospective tenant while discussing issues pertinent to the sale, because she uses these people as monkey to make them believe that they are part of her bad process while she is defrauding our coop.The same secretary has been on our coop Board for over twenty years and she refused to step down so the coop can grow without her stupidty,we the shareholders received our tax paper this year with the statement stating mortgage interest we had no mortgage on the Coop we have a loan that the secreatry and her cohort took and are having problems with the bank to provide our financials statement,for 06 -07 which was done this year by another accountant without full knowledge of our funds just so to satisffy the Bank Almagated which has provided the loan and we all think these people should be in jail for falsifying our record to the satisfaction of the bank.In 2010 we have just received the financials for the year 2006 2007 The coop board in my building together with the management of it make Bernie madoff look like a small ponzi schemer even though he was the biggest shark around.The politician need to help the shareholders and stop their nonsense of referring decent citizen who vote for them and work hard to pay their bills and their taxes to the New-York State Attorney general office who is much busy trying to go after Wall Street when these Board of directors in NY Coop are conducting themselve like a group of third world dictactor like The Chavez Of Venezuela. The Politician need to get involved and have these corrupt board and management company prosecuted to the full extent of the law People invest in a coop if it is good for Cooper Town and stuy it is good for all New-York housing sector of New-York City and Queens in particular have the most coop concentrated in the five boro.Even the Boro President is mute on our issue of corrupt Board members her office was notified the DA office was notified the AG office was notified habitat for all their writing about Coop were notified and what happen if you are a liar and a deceiver you get away practically free yet we all talk about honesty and it seems to me honesty is about self.

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Grandfathering usually applies only to stuff that's already in place at the time the new policy is passed. If you decide to prohibit wet-over-dry renovations, pre-existing installations are grandfathered in. If you want to ban pets, you can't force people to get rid of pets they already own, but you can stop them from getting new ones. If subletting is no longer permitted, current subletters may remain until the end of their subleases, but no longer. An amorphous desire to sublet at some time in the future wouldn't be grandfathered, even to people who bought their apartments with sublet possibilities in mind.

It's a fundamental principle of co-ops that House Rules are subject to change at any time, and the Proprietary Lease may be amended by a supermajority vote of the shareholders. Everyone who buys into a co-op agrees to these terms as a condition of purchase. Policies change -- sometimes for the worse -- but as long as these policies are administered even-handedly, shareholders are bound to obey them.

(I can't help but think of people who moved to the United States around 1900, enthusiastically noting that income taxes were prohibited by the U.S. Constitution....)

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It's a fundamental principle of co-ops that House Rules are subject to change at any time, and the Proprietary Lease may be amended by a supermajority vote of the shareholders. Everyone who buys into a co-op agrees to these terms as a condition of purchase. Policies change -- sometimes for the worse -- but as long as these policies are administered even-handedly, shareholders are bound to obey them.
Great way to explain it. Thank you.

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