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After investigating conversion to gas, it appeas con ed is years from being able to supply our building. Therefore we must convert from #6. Is there a downside (besides the cost of fuel) of going directly to #2 oil?
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1) Masonry Chimney liners are ok for oil to oil conversions
2) Converting to gas does require a chimney liner to be stainless steel or terra cotta.
3) INVEST in a UL & NYC DOB approved chimney liner assessment for <5k before spending 10's of thousands on a new liner.
10g stainless steel will run between 5 & 10k per floor.
***There is a UL Approved drop in liner that is 20g. This has 1/2 the life span of a10g stainless steel and is also 1/2 the price.
If the chimney is outside the building NO lining is required. How is chimney attached to building?
If you have been advised by Con Edison that gas is available, yet in order to bring it to your building significant infrastructure work is required at an insane cost call:
Ken Camilleri: Operations Manager @ ICF International
ICF has been contracted by Con Edison to look for "clustering" opportunities through NYC's Clean Heat Initiative. This is where the cost may seem prohibitive to convert one building, yet if there are a "cluster" of buildings in same area in same situation Con Edison is looking at it differently.
Call Ken @ 631-219-8288.
Hi,
My building converted from #6 in the late 70’s. We now use natural gas and we burn #2 only when it gets cold: maybe 2 or 3 times a year. During the subsequent years, our neighbors and our shareholders have benefitted with cleaner air, lower maintenance and peace of mind.
I read your post and I was dismayed that your building is thinking about doing ‘just the minimum’. Come on, convert to natural gas! Just think of the benefits: cleaner air; less traffic (no more nasty oil delivery trucks); and you will be ready for when the City next bans #2. Natural gas is locally produced (not imported) plus it is cheaper and likely to remain so.
I would read into you post that your building had a lot of deferred maintenance too (by doing ‘just the minimum’). If I am right, please take the opportunity to change the collective mindset and start doing the right thing.
I am not apologetic about the mocking tone of my post. My goal is to spur you to do the right thing.
Good luck (I perceive that you will need it)!
My building has a similar issue in that we have to change from #6 oil, but ConEd has a huge waitlist because of the high demand in converting to gas at the current time. We would love to convert to gas, but we can't wait 2 years until Con Ed is able to supply us. We are trying to get a dual burner so it can eventually burn both, but there is an issue with ConEd being so delayed. My building has no choice but to switch to another oil, probably #2, since we won't be able to get gas in the near term. Assuming many buildings are dealing with this issue...
We're in exactly the same situation. I agree with Steve in Inwood that switching to a dual-fuel system -- natural gas / #2 oil -- is ultimately the best solution. However, there are a number of practical issues to keep in mind.
* Burning natural gas requires relining your chimney. We've been quoted a cost of $1000 per foot (!) for the relining.
* Everyone knows that #2 oil is more expensive than #6, but it also has a lower heating value -- about 10% less in terms of BTUs per gallon. The slightly more efficient burn of #2 does not compensate for this difference. Our managing agent estimates an increase in heating oil costs of about 25% for a straight #6 to #2 conversion, which is another compelling reason for a dual-fuel system.
* The issues with Con Ed in switching over to gas are nontrivial, as the anonymous poster noted. There are both waiting time and cost issues.
* A full-blown conversion from #6 to dual-fuel is VERY expensive. Even with the savings from using natural gas, it will probably take you many years to recoup your investment.
Talk it over with your board, managing agent, and an external consultant if you feel that would be useful. Put a definite plan in place for the conversion, recognizing that a phased approach may be the most practical. For example, you could do a stopgap conversion from #6 to #4 (costs under $10,000) while putting a long-term assessment in place to pay for the switch to dual-fuel in three years or so. On the other hand, if you have the funds available, you could just go ahead and do the dual-fuel conversion immediately.
We hired an heating company to work with ConEd to switch from #4 oil to gas. If we go with Firm Ga (use of gas for a predetermined time), Con Ed will waive the cost of the street work of $42,000.00 and only charge $71,500.
We all know Oil is not dropping only increasing, so why keep Oil. Pay $71,500 Gas only or pay $113,500 to keep Gas and Oil. We also have Local law to expenses to consider. A touch decision.
Plus our Chimney is lined and ready for natural gas so no expense here.
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Our boiler had been equiped with a dual fuel (oil/gas) burner when initailly installed, but only setup for #6 oil. We switched over to #2 oil and installed the gas piping as well a number of years ago. #2 does not require oil heaters and flow pumps running continuously to keep the oil liquid. The oil filters don't need to be cleaned daily and the boiler runs cleaner than with #6, so you don't need to clean the boiler tubes as often. We now run with a firm gas supply contract but keep the oil as backup, in the event of a gas equipment problem or if big price swings should take place. Only cost is oil tank inspections every 5 years and annual fire dept oil tank permit, which you already have.
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