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LiarsApr 18, 2013

Liar,liar pants on fire. What's a board to do when shareholder insists they did not know the "rules" or that they were not informed about policies. I can't tell ou how many times I've heard shareholders state they aren't "paying a fee" or that they did not know the house rules. The board now gets signatures whenever housrerule are distributed but in some cases spouses who don't sign off or attend meetings claim they "didn't know". Most recently a " repeat offender"of this "didn't know wont pay " claimed once again they were not informed prior to moving out there would be charges. ( part time super has to run elevator for moves). In the past people would pay directly to the super. But, over the past 6 years people just don't want to pay. So, now charges that fall outside of building charges (ie, using super for personal work, running the manual frieght, and other non-coop charges).

This shareholder sent a rather punitive message to the board stating once again they did not know there were fees involved and that fees like this shoukd not go on maintenance reports as late fees get incurred.

There was a mistake made in the billings to the shareholder. The super's fee was correct but materials he purchased to protect flooring, ect was also bilked to shareholder. The protective materials belong to coop. The bill will be corrected. But, shareholder now stated the super was only working 2 hours not 4.

Again, I want to state this is a repeated offender of stating they were not informed. I am the only one on the board that feels we shoukd inform this shareholder that 1) they were notified of the moving protocols in an email.
We have proof in the form of an email that was sent to both the repeat offender and spouse and managing agent. 2) that moving protocols and fees are in the house rules which were acknowledge as receive by spousal signature. 3) billings for super fees go o. Maintenance billings that's just the way it is.

I say these liars must be confronted with the truth! My colleagues don't want to stir the pot.

Frustrated. I feel like board becomes people's servants and that they must always get their way.

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Liar liar - Frank Apr 18, 2013

Sorry about or the typo errors. It's early morning and I've got to get off the work. I did want to add this shareholder has always been difficult. And, serviced on the board once for a brief time. They got things paid for in their apartments that normally are billed directly to shareholder. No one wanted to confront this person because they know lies always follow. Some feel better to grease the squeaky wheel then to confront.

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liar liar - Frank Apr 18, 2013

Oh my! I've got to proof read.... Again, my apologies. They don't "pay" me enough to do this job!

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repeat offender - JB Apr 18, 2013

Your managing agent isn't doing his or her job. The board has set policy and fees -- it's up to the managing agent to handle the day-to-day operation of those policies and fees.

If the board is deciding to single this individual out for preferential treatment, then any subsequent shareholder can refuse to pay the fee. Your fellow board members are putting the co-op at fiduciary risk.

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Liars - Frank Apr 19, 2013

Thanks JB for sharing your thoughts. Our managing agent did invoice. Repeat offender sents discourteous emails and ranting calls to both management agent, super and board. It always comes down to he said , she said. These shareholders are in the process of selling their unit so they are being a little more civil but still make their point. They are contesting the hours the super has submitted. I believe we must stand behind our super.

This sort of thing has happened in the past and my views have gotten out. Shareholders now see me as "out to get them". It's been a rough go. I can't pin point the leak. Plus, I had served on the board at the time this shareholder served for one year. In the year they got all their self serving policies. My views were clear in board meetings.

It's very hard serving on a board and having strong views and values. Many times confidentiality goes out the window and personal attacks take over.

One or two bad apples really do spoil the cart. Also, there is a difference between board disscussions being held in confidence, personal lives protected and board members acting in professional manner following PL, by laws and house rules as their guide. Not personal preferences.

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Liars thoughts - JG in NYC Apr 20, 2013

Your board needs to put some time in and prepare some documents.
House rules should be distributed with a purchase/application package, with a sign off sheet for all signing/titled parties, to be returned with the application, acknowledging receipt and understanding of the rules. No sign off, no application review. An additional document needs to be prepared regarding moving in/out. We collect a $1000 deposit from a seller within 10 days of an approved sale application, and the same $1000 from the buyer at closing, to offset any potential damage to the building during moving. Refunded to both after move is completed. We also have a carpeting rule, move in/out refund occurs after apartment is inspected by a board member or super for compliance. Include info about the elevator staffing in the document, have both the moving party and the employee sign off with the starting time and completing time. Document can also be handed out with application package with a sign off, so everyone knows up-front. Post documents in a public bulletin board in the lobby or other common area, no excuse that 'I can't find it'. Video cameras with recording in the elevator, lobby, hallways, etc. are invaluable. Recordings can be checked to see when and who is going in or out or using the elevator. As the judge says, 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'.

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liers - escapefromyonkers Apr 22, 2013

My board oresident does the exct same thing at annual meetingd, Stating that he has never seen the rule against children playing on the terrace. He has lived here for over 30 years and raised two boys and knew about the rules, but since the shareholder was complaining about another board members kids, creating an atmosphere that would guarantee a lost of sale if a prospective buyer was in the apartment,
Basically he was just continuing the boards self dealing.
Now , along with my tape recorder and videocamera, i will have to bring the house rules on a posterboard. The shareholder who had complained informed me she is no longer attending annual meeting due to the verbal bulling that he had pweformed. It was quite a lot more than what i mentioned, and saud rule highlighted.

As far as fee's in house rules, i would check with attorneys, I was under the impression that all fees, such as flip taxes, have to be in the proprietary lease or by-laws. The fact that the co-op billed the shareholder for co-op property makes the whole thing look suspicious As a shareholder i would request to see all the moving bills the co-op had issued from day one.

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Liars - Steve Rosenstein Apr 20, 2013

The discourteous shareholders are trying to sell? Fantastic! All you have to do is refuse to give them letters that their maintenance is paid up until they pay the fees they are "disputing". They will threaten up and down, but at the end of the day if paying off the fees means they can close, they will pay. Maintenance Paid letters are required by just about every bank and purchasers attorney, so you have a very strong hand in this.

In a broader sense, the board needs to stand together on this, especially when it comes to your staff. If it is only a small minority who are causing trouble, they can bluster all they want but at the end of the day the board is in control. If you sense that a large minority or possibly a majority of shareholders are dissatisfied, they you need to find out what is behind the dissatisfaction and takes steps to get it cleared up. If you don't, a new board may be put in place after the next annual meeting.

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