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We have a sign-up list for use of the gas grill on our common roof deck. It has a lock, and the user has to get the key from the concierge. We also instituted a $50 fine for people who fail to clean up after themselves, and we don't allow people in arrears to use it. It's very popular.
it is important ti live a little..... peple all over NY do this without a problem.
Yes, it's important to "live a little" - but as a Board Member, your first responsibility is to the building's, and residents', safety. By allowing this activity, you put the safety of both in jeopardy - and the co-op could "enjoy" a hefty fine.
Isn't it enough fun for your residents to HAVE a roof deck?? In NYC, that's a huge perk.
Is there a back yard or a patio that could be used instead? The liability issues of an illegal roof grill seem staggering, and could put the board members at risk -- L&O insurance doesn't cover illegal activity.
On the other hand, were are the specific city regulations regarding roof grills? It may simply be that certain types of grills, such as propane or charcoal, are not allowed but electric grills are. Anyone know?
Here's what the FDNY has to say:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/safety/barbeque.shtml
"Never use a propane barbecue grill on a balcony, terrace or roof. It is both dangerous and illegal. ... Only use a charcoal barbecue grill on a balcony or terrace if there is a ten foot clearance from the building and there is an immediate source of water (garden hose or four (4) gallon pail of water). Otherwise, such barbequeings [sic] is dangerous and illegal."
So there's nothing there about a charcoal grill being illegal on a roof; the "otherwise" seems ambiguous since a terrace with a ten-foot clearance isn't any different than a rooftop space -- essentially a terrace -- with a ten-foot clearance. (How are terraces and balconies different, anyway?)
The FDNY, judging from "barbequeings," may not be the definitive source; they're lay people interpreting the statute(s), and incompletely, it appears. I'll nose around in the city code -- the specifics must be in there.
The full NYC Fire Code is available here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/firecode/july_2008/fire_code_local_law26_final_complete.pdf
For barbecues, see Section 307.5 on page 66. Charcoal BBQs are 307.5.1; propane (LPG or liquefied petroleum gas) are 307.5.3. In the propane section, I have no idea what a "Group R-3 occupancy" is, though it would appear to exclude multifamily apartment buildings.
Following up on my own post: NYC Fire Code Section 307.5.3 allows propane barbecues "on the premises of a Group R-3 occupancy." According to http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/cc_chapter3.pdf -- Section 310.1.3 on page 33 -- Group R-3 is defined as follows: "This occupancy shall include buildings or portions thereof containing no more than 2 dwelling units." This means that propane barbecues are not legal *anywhere* in multifamily apartment buildings.
What's the rule on rooftop fireplace? There is a new condo development (currently in construction) touting rooftop lounge with fireplace as an amenity.
Again, see page 66 of the NYC Fire Code:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/firecode/july_2008/fire_code_local_law26_final_complete.pdf
"307.2.1 Authorization. Open fires allowed pursuant to Section 307.1 may only be kindled, built, maintained or used with the prior written authorization of the agencies with regulatory jurisdiction, property owner and other required approvals, and only when such open fires are maintained in compliance with all conditions of such authorization or approval."
That's vague enough that I would assume a properly maintained rooftop fireplace would be legal, given the proper approvals.
Reminder: I'm not a lawyer! If there's a legal issue concerning barbecues or fireplaces in your building, please consult your attorney.
Just searched... the NYT has a May 21, 1997 article, "Sear Thy Steak, Not Thy Neighbor" which seems to indicate that rooftop grilling might be permissible, but only under certain conditions and specifications. The article also cautions greatly about propane's danger and explosive potential.
Good idea to check the fire codes for yourself... and to consult your co-op lawyer.
That's not true. check the FDNY website...charcoal and electric grills are approved for roof tops and terraces based on appropriate space allocation and source of water. Propane is not allowed on roof tops or terraces, only ground level.
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Are you aware that it is against the New York Fire Department rules to use a gas or charcoal grill on any roof in the five boroughs of New York. It may be popular but it is against the law, not to mention very dangerous.
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