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My attorney tells me flip taxes are bad because they are an additional burden/ fee for the seller and can turn off potential buyers unless finances are genius at a bldg. OUr has been a coop for over 20 years and missed the maximum benefit from the flipping years after conversion (due to inside buyers selling), plus is 28% sponsor owned (sponsor pays no flip taxes), plus our maintenance level is 20/25% higher than average. Now, instead of effectively addressing line-item budget costs, they want to add a 2% flip tax of the sales price. I am told this effects the value for reasons including it is a red flag when combined with a high mtnce level (never buy in a building with a new flip tax and a high cost level). Thoughts?
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I disagree with the analysis. Once the initial offering plan and flips go thru, a flip tax which should be exclusively written to go directly into the reserves, can be a significant income stream especially to coops with no commercial or retail income. A small building in a high price zone can see significant returns. It should be a two stage process in that owners of less than 3-5 years should have to pay 3% to prevent flippers, and longer term shareholders 1% or 1.5%.
It's a payback from the seller to the Coop for all the years of benefit from owning there, in a well run coop with a nice appreciation in realized asset valuation I.e. profits to them. Since they are leaving, the tax is on them not the purchaser, and therefore of little concern to the purchaser, just like the sellers Agent's fee.
Doing a % based on the gross sale price keeps it nice and legal vs. Dollars and shares, which is a problem.
It's a win-win all around for remaining shareholders and new shareholders alike.
After years of highly questionable to downright ridiculous applicants, as a Board President I was disabused of any feelings of owing the seller anything. And really surprised when past Board members sponsored purchasers who would pay a high asking price because they were totally unqualified to own.
Remember the purchase price is what the seller walks away with. What you have to ascertain is after paying that price, can the prospect show financial holding and stability, income and projections to meet future demands of maintenance and possible unknown assessments.
We don't know: future oil/fuel costs, RE taxes, water or insurance costs.
Surprise, surprise - OPEC, 9/11, Hurricane Sandy, global warming impact on water, utilities, temp, oh yeah and Local Law 11 - what's that new crack in the facade all about?
We can't predict the future, so we need to make reasonably sure we are financially healthy. Reserves and shareholder capability. Flip taxes are a reasonable and legitimate small revenue stream that should never be used in calculating operation budget projections. They are a serendipitous addition to your reserves.
I disagree with the analysis. Once the initial offering plan and flips go thru, a flip tax which should be exclusively written to go directly into the reserves, can be a significant income stream especially to coops with no commercial or retail income. A small building in a high price zone can see significant returns. It should be a two stage process in that owners of less than 3-5 years should have to pay 3% to prevent flippers, and longer term shareholders 1% or 1.5%.
It's a payback from the seller to the Coop for all the years of benefit from owning there, in a well run coop with a nice appreciation in realized asset valuation I.e. profits to them. Since they are leaving, the tax is on them not the purchaser, and therefore of little concern to the purchaser, just like the sellers Agent's fee.
Doing a % based on the gross sale price keeps it nice and legal vs. Dollars and shares, which is a problem.
It's a win-win all around for remaining shareholders and new shareholders alike.
After years of highly questionable to downright ridiculous applicants, as a Board President I was disabused of any feelings of owing the seller anything. And really surprised when past Board members sponsored purchasers who would pay a high asking price because they were totally unqualified to own.
Remember the purchase price is what the seller walks away with. What you have to ascertain is after paying that price, can the prospect show financial holding and stability, income and projections to meet future demands of maintenance and possible unknown assessments.
We don't know: future oil/fuel costs, RE taxes, water or insurance costs.
Surprise, surprise - OPEC, 9/11, Hurricane Sandy, global warming impact on water, utilities, temp, oh yeah and Local Law 11 - what's that new crack in the facade all about?
We can't predict the future, so we need to make reasonably sure we are financially healthy. Reserves and shareholder capability. Flip taxes are a reasonable and legitimate small revenue stream that should never be used in calculating operation budget projections. They are a serendipitous addition to your reserves.
I disagree with the analysis. Once the initial offering plan and flips go thru, a flip tax which should be exclusively written to go directly into the reserves, can be a significant income stream especially to coops with no commercial or retail income. A small building in a high price zone can see significant returns. It should be a two stage process in that owners of less than 3-5 years should have to pay 3% to prevent flippers, and longer term shareholders 1% or 1.5%.
It's a payback from the seller to the Coop for all the years of benefit from owning there, in a well run coop with a nice appreciation in realized asset valuation I.e. profits to them. Since they are leaving, the tax is on them not the purchaser, and therefore of little concern to the purchaser, just like the sellers Agent's fee.
Doing a % based on the gross sale price keeps it nice and legal vs. Dollars and shares, which is a problem.
It's a win-win all around for remaining shareholders and new shareholders alike.
After years of highly questionable to downright ridiculous applicants, as a Board President I was disabused of any feelings of owing the seller anything. And really surprised when past Board members sponsored purchasers who would pay a high asking price because they were totally unqualified to own.
Remember the purchase price is what the seller walks away with. What you have to ascertain is after paying that price, can the prospect show financial holding and stability, income and projections to meet future demands of maintenance and possible unknown assessments.
We don't know: future oil/fuel costs, RE taxes, water or insurance costs.
Surprise, surprise - OPEC, 9/11, Hurricane Sandy, global warming impact on water, utilities, temp, oh yeah and Local Law 11 - what's that new crack in the facade all about?
We can't predict the future, so we need to make reasonably sure we are financially healthy. Reserves and shareholder capability. Flip taxes are a reasonable and legitimate small revenue stream that should never be used in calculating operation budget projections. They are a serendipitous addition to your reserves.
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Sorry - to clarify - flip taxes were instituted to capture money from the rapid flipping that often took place just after buildings converted to cooperatives due to people selling who bought at 'insider' prices. Our building missed that wave. The sponsor currently owns aprox 1/3 of the apartments and will not be paying any tax yet will benefit form regular shareholders who get drained by this fee. I understand it is highly unusual for an older coop (30 years in our case) - to institute a flip tax when we already missed rapid turn-over, have 1/3 of apt who do not have to pay and can also anticipate very few sales in the near future. The excuse is that a tax is commonplace however I think this is partially a myth if you really examine finances and I do see many apartment listings advertising NO tax as a selling point.
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