I do believe that in order for the Room-mate Law to work the tenant must live in the apartment at the same time as the room-mate. As for relatives, how do you really know if they are related, do you ask for proof (is it legal too)?

Check your bylaws, ours list the relatives who are elegable to stay. Nieces and Nephews are not listed, therefore in our coop they would have to pay a sublet fee.

AliceT

bandit61 - Our Prop Lease and most others states that the apartment can be occupied by a SH and a SH's spouse, siblings, children, grandchildren, parents, grandchildren and domestic employees.

Aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews, etc. are not part of a SH's immediate family and not considered authorized occupants. Check your Prop Lease. If it states the same as ours and your SH's niece lives in her apartment without board approval, she'd be considered a sublet. Check this with your coop attorney too. You should be able to charge a sublet fee and require any other terms you have for sublets (application package, interview).

My coop has a $750 fine for any "invalid occupancy" - i.e., for anyone not authorized and approved to live in an apartment, for a tenant whose sublet term expired but hasn't moved out and the SH does nothing in good faith to get the tenant out, etc. We've had to charge this fine a few times and the SHs all paid it and had the occupant move out. If they didn't pay it, we'd let it sit on their account as a lien. If they didn't make the occupant leave we'd have to take further legal steps but that hasn't been necessary.

The key word is "and" not "or" so with the shareholder. IF the shareholder isn't living there it is a sublease

The Roommate Law applies only when the Lessee is concurrently occupying the apartment. If the shareholder has moved out, the Roommate Law doesn't apply.

The rest is a matter of checking the "Use of Premises" paragraph in your Proprietary Lease (it's Paragraph 14 in the lease used by many NYC co-ops). If the list of permitted residents says "the Lessee AND ..." then the courts have ruled that the shareholder must be occupying the apartment along with the other person.

On the other hand, if your lease says the permitted occupants are (for example) "the Lessee, children, spouse, ..." -- with no AND after Lessee -- then anyone in the list is allowed to live in the apartment, with or without the shareholder.

"and" is ambiguous and courts has upheld it as meaning "or."

Marvin G wrote:
>"and" is ambiguous and courts has upheld it as meaning "or."

That's not the current status, unless there's a very recent decision of which I'm unaware. There was one early anomalous case that ruled as you describe (Barbizon Owners Corp. v. Chudick, 1994), but it has now been settled law for many years that "Lessee AND" requires simultaneous occupancy by the shareholder.

Family members may also be considered subleasing the unit if the shareholder is not in residence. Example: parents and children living without the shareholder are considered tenants. It is up to the board to consider if they wish to enforce the sublet fee on family members living the apartment. In cases where the shareholder is keeping the apartment for parents or a child, it is understood that the shareholder is not charging fair market rent and, in reaching to a decision, this must be considered too.

Does he live in the building? That's $250 per week without an apartment. Maybe he only has time to do the hallways once per week, there has to be a reason why he can't do it twice per as requested.

Uh, I would not think part time super's live in the building. If so, then he should be paying rent. I only know of full time super's to be living rent free. Anyway, $1,000 should be appropriate.

Part time supers do live in some buildings and they work a regular job, in addition to getting a free apartment they receive a small salary.

We have one live-super and two porters for our 111 unit three building complex. We decided to amend our union contract by paying $.50 extra per hour to get extra cleaning, minor spot painting and other additional items. I have found that if you want extra services (from what the expectations are), paying a little extra for them builds goodwill between staff and management/Boards.

Thank you all for your response.
The super does not live in our building.
He takes care of another where he has been given an apartment.
He was given instruction on job duties & agreed to carry them out. That is not happening, we have to keep asking or pointing out what needs attending.
How much an hour is the going rate?

Hi,

Our Union rates (Ft George area of Manhattan) are $17.975/hr for the live in Super and $16.98 for a porter.

Thank you, any idea what it is for a live out super?

Just ran across this Habitat piece about managing part-time supers:

http://habitatmag.com/earlier_issues/2005_december/web_exclusive_adaptations/managing_part_time_supers

1000.00 is definitely adequate to do the hallways twice a week. The supers duty is to make sure that everything is done properly even if it means washing the floor three times a week.

My sentiments exactly!
Thank you for our help

I have shared supers that earn less than that and clean up to 4 buildings 2+ times a week.
Create a job description & agreement for him to sign and adhere to and inform him that it is not negotiable. Do not be afraid to replace him, there are thousands of people willing to fill the shoes.

You can email me if you would like a simple sample agreement that i made & use.

Best
~AR

Thank you AR, I would like a copy of that letter.
e-mail: ahiggins6@nyc.rr.com

just make sure thePDF didnt get sent to spam

~AR

Hi AR,
We have a pt super who is paid $450 a month for 12 apts. He lives far away and is not handy in terms of being hired by tenants to make small repairs they would pay for. Sometimes we need someone to let vendors in for repairs and he can't be depended upon to do that. We get many sanitation tickets for the curbs not being swept of debris in the mornings. We've identified interested super replace,ent candidates who are live in supers on the block, and willing and able to do more than the current one does for the same money. Now some board members are feeling badly firing him "until he finds another job." Is this reasonable? And, is paying $450 a month for someone to bag garbage three times a week, clean the halls of a brownstone once a week, and nothing else reasonable? Thanks for your advice.

The price you are paying is certainly fair for the tasks required.

As you have discovered, there are many qualified people out there willing and able to take it on...

(I am assuming this is not his primary source of income)

Do they realize that they are paying the citations, added costs because of inattention to the boiler on a daily basis and an all around derogation of services? What if there is an accident and lawsuit because the sidewalk was not cleaned in a timely manner?
This amounts to much more than just $450 per month in aggregate.

I would feel bad also since it is obviously not an adversarial layoff, but you have to think of your bottom line and make that priority. Possibly once you have someone lined up, give him a parting gift to ease the pain...

Hopefully after about a month, he will have been forgotten when they are singing praises of the new hire...

Just to summarize.. feeling bad is a good and humane emotion, but as a Board member,make decisions in a fiduciary manner...

Happy New Year

~AR

Thanks, AR. I'll pass on your insights to my board. Just curious: what daily duties does a super normally have with regard to the boiler? I'd like to add that to the list of duties we will need to draw up.

Standard debt consists of:
#1 housing expenses
#2 recurring debt

#1 includes mortgage payment, LOC payment, mortgage or hazard insurance, property taxes (if paid separately) and coop, condo or homeowner monthly fees (maintenance charges, running assessments).

#2 includes student loans, car loans, child support, alimony, credit card payments and any other running obligations that won't be paid off in a relatively short period of time (typically 6 to 12 months).

Also, boards sometimes forget to consider if a buyer's income can meet the other expenses we all have: phones, cable TV, utilities, Internet, commuting to work, laundry/dry cleaning, food, OOP medical/dental, even beauty salon/barber, gifts, leisure (dining out, movies), vacations, pet costs (food, medical), clothing. Also consider if the buyer has furniture, etc. that he's bringing from his current home or if he has to buy them (if he comes from his parents' home, a college dorm or was a roommate with someone who had an apt and owned all the furniture).

You can't pinpoint all the expenses someone has, but things add up. Ever take $100 out of an ATM, then wonder three days later why you only have $18 left? Time flies, and so does money!

Unless it is made out of steel, don't bother the rats would eat right thru it. I would contact the exterminator that your building is using and inquire about some kind of safe traps or other gadgets they are available. Also contact your City Council member and inform him/her of the rats.

Also call your community board's district manager and report the presence of rats.

Because of your location, it's one of those problems where the rats will always exist and you will never catch them all if you attempt to trap them (unless there is a major neighborhoor exterminatino or miricle which I do not forsee)

So, you have two options. Kill or trap every one that comes near the building in effort to cut down on the traffic and appearance of rodents or deter them as much as possible and give them little to no reason to come to you in the first place.
Rodent proof the alleys/courtyard/gartbage area, etc...
Plexiglass works well aslo.
Solar Powered Sonic Rodent Deterrents
JAD Rodent repellent trash bags
Rat-A-Way Repellent

We had a similar issue late last year. We were charging a punitive late fee (which worked - we even had early payers). However, it was pointed out that our Lease only called for "Late Interest". As a result, we changed to conform to the lease language until such time as we can amend the Lease. Specifically, we changed all future charges to late interest and adjusted the unpaid late fees to later interest. We did not address paid late fees and no one has raised it.

I suggest that you first point this out to the Board and ask them to change it. If not, then talk to a lawyer.

Dont pay late!

Bingy - that was not the question. sometimes even the best intended are a few days late.

The Proprietary Lease must be amended to include a late fee clause with the amount that would be charge, i.e., a percent amount or a fixed amout such as $50.

However, your co-op needs the money to pay bills and provide you with basic services as well as pay the salary of those who take care of the buildingd. If the rent is due on the 1st of each month and you have 10 days grace period to pay your rent, I would suggest to do your best effort to pay on time. If for some reason you are experiencing a problem, approach the Board with a letter explaining the issues you may have so that a greater period of time is considered in your case. If this is the first time you are late, then request a waiver. It usually works!

The Proprietary Lease must be amended to include a late fee clause with the amount that would be charged, i.e., a percent amount or a fixed amout such as $50.

However, your co-op needs the money to pay bills and provide you with basic services as well as pay the salary of those who take care of the buildingd. If the rent is due on the 1st of each month and you have 10 days grace period to pay your rent, I would suggest to do your best effort to pay on time. If for some reason you are experiencing a problem, approach the Board with a letter explaining the issues you may have so that a greater period of time is considered in your case. If this is the first time you are late, then request a waiver. It usually works!

Try DiSalvo Contracting 4214 Third Avenue Brooklyn, N.Y. 11232 (718)832-9400 they are licensed and do great work.

Going through one Now, You can try Rich Singler Cell# 807-4607 office# 718-768-7277. Excellent work! Wonderful, standup Man...

Regards,

RH

there is definitely something "fishy" going on. i would recommend to switch management since the sponsor never has any interest in doing anything to benefit the current shareholders. the sponsor must have a big say in the decisions since they have some sort of previous relationship.

We have a similar situation in our co-op, confirmed, the sponsor is also the managing agent. We have begun the process of looking for a new managing agent - It is not an easy execution, but the hunt is on.
Why --- Upon my joining the board, I was ready for change, and had experience in finance to see some of the blatant conflicts of interest.
As we progressed to hiring an engineer for a physical survey, moved onto new fuel suppliers, it was becoming clear the sponsor who objected every step of the way, was now using the managing agent to slow things down. An example - the check can’t be signed because nobody is in today or my favorite, we can’t tell you who is in arrears today because you need to wait until the third Friday of the month for the financial reporting pack.
The managing agent was slowing us down. We have not confirmed our new managing agent, but we are actively exploring. Getting new contractors, etc has largely fallen to us as resident purchasing shareholder board members to procure and meet with contractors for each project.
I would document things that seem strange, ask questions in writing, know and understand your prop lease, by laws, and house rules and begin to form the necessary coalition to begin the push for reasonable change.
A side note - It won’t be simple or easy, but keep everyone in the loop, form a coalition, set clear objectives and keep the focus on the true intent for your co-op's existence - to provide a permanent residence for purchasing shareholders - our prop lease even --- states as a first class residence.
Keep it civil, document document and document, patience and preservation will go a long way to improving the situation.

In my experience, the goals of the Sponsor and the goals of the Board can differ and at times, greatly. You want the management company to listen exclusively to decisions made by the Board. The proper forum for the Sponsor to raise issues is at the Board Meeting. Get an independent management company as soon as possible.

i agree with Steve you should change agents. Make sure your agent has the ability to do what the board wants and not be pressured by the sponsors requests. We had a similar problem until we switched agents, now everything is fine, and they are very on top of the game.

DavidG, if you can e-mail me regarding this issue.

Thanks. (mblevine@ebmg.com)

Insist on a licensed professional.

I'm shocked that a managing agent would suggest otherwise. Not surprised, mind you... but still shocked.

Any time structural work is being performed, licensed professionals MUST be hired, in our co-op. And proof of insurance MUST be provided.

Hold the line. Get a lawyer if you have to.

Thanks so very much for your message. They treated me like I'm difficult for expecting someone licensed to do the job. Where can I talk to an attorney? Any recommendations? I'd love to cut off communication and just let the attorney's duke it out. It's been a year...oy. The management agent told me he doesn't have to be licensed. How can I prove to everyone he's wrong if he is? A painter doesn't have to be license...but to take down a ceiling and part of wall where electric and plumbing need to be switched....does that make this "contractor" work?
Thanks.

Laura, Email power turned our building around, and got rid of a self-serving Board. Put every corrospondence in an Email (which you save) and CC every one...EVERY ONE! If you have other S/H email addresses, include them.

Use the info from these excellent exchanges, and make your case.

Nothing scares a Board or MangAgent like the old Emial trail, which stands up in court..and, if there is an accident --protects you.
AliceT

as soon as they start the work.

As long as the contractor is insured and is a good company (references checked)I can't see why he has to be licensed, there are many small one man company's and father/son company's that perform great work. The key issue should be INSURANCE & WORKMANS COM.

Call the DOB. Unliscended workers, if hurt on the job -- espically if the Board is aware that they are unliscened, would have a major lawsuit.

Our previous Board, also enjoyed the services (and prices) of unliscend workers, and did not bother with Permits... Only to discover that on selling, they needed the permits.. Poetic justice? Only if no one is injured.

EmailPower: Put EVERYONE in copy of your Emails, this way if anyone is ever sued -- you will have some protection. Let other S/H know of this situation. PS: Boards tend to pay attention to people who are not afraid to sound the alarm.

Let me preface any remarks by advising you that your cooperative and ultimately the shareholders will most probably be responsible for any fines accessed by the City of White Plains.

Having said that and after reviewing the scope of work as outlined in your post it is most likely that a permit with the City of White Plains needs to be filed for this work.

In order to file a permit the contractor must submit proof of insurance to the City of White Plains before commencing any work.

At a minimum any contractor working in your building should provide management a copy of their certificate of insurance including worker’s comp listing your cooperative as additionally insured and as a certificate holder.

My suggestion is that you notice your managing agent with this information with a short time limit to respond. In the event you do not receive a response, please see the contact info below.

Best of Luck

CITY OF WHITE PLAINS
DEPARTMENT of BUILDING
7-11 South Broadway- Suite 100,
White Plains, New York 10601
Phone : (914) 422-1269 * Fax: (914) 422-1471

I can't imagine a law that prohibits a shareholder from selling his shares just because the other shareholders elected him to the board. Big business would cease to function if that were the case -- corporations are governed by the same rules, whether the corporation is Citibank or your co-op.

It sounds like your coop's problem, in part, is in failing to ask candidates if they plan to sell during their term -- not that people wouldn't lie, and not that plans don't change -- and in part failing to find candidates to run against those you oppose.

At the next annual neeting, make a big deal out of board members' pet projects (but remember that what looks like a pet project to you may be an overdue improvement to others). Say that you want board members to resign when they sell.

These are ethical issues, not legal ones.

Better yet, run for the board yourself and show them what you mean by setting standards.

I believe the only legal requirement is that a board member be 18. And prohibiting a board member from selling during his/her term could be considered restraint of trade.

Check with your attorney.

In the meantime, try to recruit board candidates who have no personal agenda; make sure that all new board members understand the concept of fiduciary responsibility; create an ethics standard for board members; if all else fails, RUN FOR THE BOARD.

We have no provisions in our lease or by-laws requiring resignation if a sitting board member puts his or her apartment up for sale; however, I agree that such an action could easily result in a conflict of interest.

At the very least, a sitting board member that is selling must recuse themselves from any vote related to a purchase application or from any change in policy that could help or hinder their sale. Whether it can be required legally, I don't know - check with your attorney - ethically, a selling board member should step down.

Thanks for the response. From speaking to different folks it's apparent that having a by-law created stating that if any board member lists his/her apt. he/she must resign from the BOD is not out of line, and is actually a good idea. We're pursuing it.

In our ByLaws, only an owner can be on the Board. The moment a Board member sells -- he/she resignes. But as long as they are owners, they can be on the Board.

This is a very good ByLaw in that, years ago, we had problems with B/M's putting people on the Board who were not even owners. They actually put the President of our MangCompany on the Board.

AliceT

Hi
I hope that in Big business there is a little more ethical behavior than we amateurs who live in my particular building. Our BOD president actually failed to act on the recent quorum vote to raise maintenance until she was forced to direct it so. Why? Because she is 70 years old and the increase priced her out of our building. She's one of the people now selling, in fact. Living in this area is expensive, we all know, but we have a fiduciary duty to create an operating budget that can pay our bills. Some people just can't afford to live here and it's a very tough situation, especially for the elderly.

That's a good idea to ask them if they plan on selling but in the end, where will it get us if it's not enforceable?
The pet projects will already be done by the annual meeting...and damage done.
Agreed, it's ethical but another reader just wrote that they have changed their by-laws...of course, that doesn't mean pet projects don't happen and THEN they sell....but at least they won't be on the admittance committee when the magic moment arrives.
BTW I served for about 5 years. I think it's very important for people to serve. :-)

By the way, I think you may have misunderstood. "I can't imagine a law that prohibits a shareholder from selling his shares just because the other shareholders elected him to the board. " I'm not saying that if someone is on the BOD they should be prevented from selling shares, I'm saying that when they list their apt. they should be made to resign from the BOD.

There was no provision in our prospectus regarding this subject so the Board voted to put this in the by-laws....If a Board member LISTS their unit for sale, they must resign from the Board. Now there is no personal agenda and they can't interview buyers. Just in case you are wondering...if they take the unit off the market, NO - they cannot come back to the board automatically. They must submit to the Board all over again.

Hi past pres,
That's very helpful to know. I have seen that it could lead to conflict of interest when someone calling the shots wants to sell thier apt.
I'm going to rally the troups and see if shareholders will get on board for the amendment. It will have to come from the shareholders- the BOD will never go for it at this time- 3 or the 7 have their apts. on the market.
THANK YOU! Off I go to start some trouble. ;-)