You can be certain that boards pay top dollar for insurance to protect themselves especially knowing that they take kickbacks and are destroying their building. I wonder if you go directly to ins. company with evidence - would they prosecute??

We had two management companies that with the help of certain board members and accountant embezzled massive funds from our coop - Nothing was done by the board to collect since most of them were part of it etc - We had another management company that possibly embezzled and the matter was put to the insurance company which did pay, however in this instance the management company has already been convicted of this by many coops -

What I believe you are talking about is fiduciary insurance. We had it when our managing agent embezzled funds from our corporation. Ours was for a certain amount and did not cover the complete loss, only about half the amount. We've since upped the amount but you pay "x" amount of dollars for "x" amount of coverage and I believe there was a deductible.

How long do you think the insurance company is going to keep paying; they will raise our fees and at the end we pay for it. In my coop the management company was a company of the sponsor (remember the landlord who converted his building to coop to avoid NYC rent regulations of the 70's). One day, we manage to removed the president for life, and when the new president questioned why some checks were being paid from our coop accounts, the management company cancel our contract immediately (but only for the shareholders, they are still here managing the renting business of the sponsor who still own more than 50% of our coop). We are Americans without home rights. A home is a human right. Yes we need to keep fighting to get our freedom but we can only do it together. NO WE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. That is what politicians try to tell us "you are an isolated incident". Why don't you take a look of our website COOPABUSE.COM so you can see by yourself. As a matter of fact every time I post something I get a few emails from abused shareholders who join our cause. As a matter of fact we are looking for a lawyer to take our class action case against the estate and maybe attorney general because we are the only American who has no right to protect our home in bankruptcy court, housing court and they failed to act no matter how much we complained. Maybe they will listen to us in court. Any lawyer or anybody who wants to know more about us email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM

it is the board's prerogative to assess (recapture) the STAR credit. i have been on my board for 5 years and we have assessed it 3 out of 5 years. in essence, it's a more painless way to raise money than raising maintenance or assessing.

This so called "prerrogative" (not spelled in any Proprietary Lease that I know of) is nothing but a licence to steal and defraud the taxpayers of the State of New York. This constitutes just plain, in your face THEFT, accepted and submitted to by sheep directors who use their omnipotent powers to serve the interest of the sponsors and the managing agents. Coops are enclaves of medieval totalitarian dictatorships run by the Sponsor and the Managing Agent, for their profits. Directors are selected precisely because they are financially illiterate, full of vanity and greed, and abject submissive servants of their overlord. They are lackeys, not leaders.
I fully agree and enthusiastically support the idea of a COOPERATIVE COUNCIL OF OWNERS. I thought of creating something similar, PRO SHAREHOLDERS RIGHTS, Let's continue refining this idea.
Rosa, the directors have FIDUCIARY DUTIES, meaning they are in a position of trust to handle other people's moneys (ours) and serve the interest of the people who have entrusted them with their money.

if you would like to make an intelligent comment, first spell 'prerogative' correctly. and i would beg to differ. i am the president of a board of a well run building with good financials. i work my butt off to keep our building in good shape (physically and financially). i don't get anything for it except the peace of mind that i am protecting my investment as well as the investments of the other owners.

it makes eminent sense to assess the STAR credit and keep the maintenance down a point. buyers look at maintenance increases and significant increases year on year drive buyers away.

i think this site has the potential for great dialogue and learning - it's distressing to me that people like Carmen who have other agendas in mind clutter it up with rude, unhelpful, uneducated, misinformed diatribes.

Eminent sense? I would call it theft...defrauding the taxpayers of the State of New York, and deceiving the "potential buyers", those misguided fools who still have not awaken to the Coop calamity. This is a massive deception of the American people, and sooner or later will be investigated by the US Attorney for fraudulent & deceptive business practices..
You are are self-righteous and delusional, Mr. board president who doesn't get paid (regretably?). My "agenda" is the same as yours: to preserve my investment and keep a roof over my head.

Why don you identify yourself, Mr. ABCDE? Are you ashamed of being identified as a member of the Abominable Coop Board, a monstrosity in this country of democratic institutions? Are you one of those foreign born, who comes from Rumania, or Burlgaria, or Ukrania, those countries from the former Soviet block, who never knew any democracy, and cannot undertand our democratic system of owning property? I have met several of these types among sponsors, managing agents, real estate advisors...and most of them end up fleeing to Israel.

Carmen you may called it theft but Board members call it wise planning. If we weren't able to use these funds towards operating expenses we would need to raise the maintenance fees to make up for the shortfall. If keeping our buildings running properly and paying our bills is an "agenda" and "self serving" then yes, I for one will try not to be offended by those labels. Perhaps you would be happier in a rental apartment where the tenants have no say at all. Your comments above are bullying and racist and serve no purpose except to forward your agenda. This is a forum for us "naive" board members to share information and ideas and educate ourselves on how to run our buildings better both economically and socially and so you are preaching to the wrong crowd. Go find another place to spew your venom. This is not place for bullies and racists.

"...Give us your tax benefits, otherwise we'll have to raise the maintenance" Oh, what a terrible prospect, Lord have mercy! I have this lame puerile threat a million times from all politicos to whom I reported these illegal appropriations of our money, including "oil surcharges" in perpetuity extended to all year round. "What, would you prefer that they raise the maintenance instead?" they exclaim in horror, as if we were talking about a contageous decease, or the firing squad.
My answer is: WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?. Since it all end up coming out of our pockets anyway, whether you call it maintence increase, or permanent assessments (illegal), or fuel surcharges, or approppriation of the shareholders' abatements and tax exemptions. Calling it by another name does not alter the fact that these are concealed increases in maintenance, and a deceptive maneuver to entrap fools, and delude the shareholders into believing that their rent is not going up. A con game.

And now, the punch blow: WHAT' SO TRAGIC ABOUT INCREASING THE MAINTENANCE ? The maintenance amount is not something fixed in concrete that can never be erased or removed once decreed; it may be DECREASED just as well, or even entirely suppressed (in Coops that have outside income, and no debt). They are flexible amounts, like taxes: they can be INCREASED OR DECREASED, according to the needs of the budget. One year may go up, another year may go down. This is determined by the guys doing the budget.
Who are these guys? The managing agent, of course, following directives from the Sponsor and the Coop lobby. The "directors", who are usually financially illiterate (otherwise, they would not be allowed in the board) meekly accept these directives - they have nothing to loose: they are anonymous and unaccountable. This is the root of all the evils of the Coop Calamity: the omnipotent, inscrutable, irresponsible, and unaccountable Coop board, a bunch of sheep who had been handed power of life and death over the shareholders. Liken handling outomatic weapons to children.

Chriss, identify yourself, and your coop, so we can investigate further. I am collecting data, trying to ascertain the aproximate total amount of stealing of the tax payers's moneys being perpetrated in the coops, to inform all the Consumer Fnancial Fraud Protection agencies set up by the government. These are staggering amounts. Our managing agent drives a Jaguar, our super owns 4 apartments and 2 cars, a BMW and a Mercedes....these people are not poor, they are enriching themselves off the backs of the miserable downtrodden shareholders, and contributing to the collapse of the coop system in NYC (which will happen a few years down the road).
Shareholders: please examiine your financial statements, and send me data about HOW MUCH specifically is being confiscated in your coop out of abatements, STAR exemptions, and other senior benefits and tax breaks. I am collecting statistics, for my data base, and I pledge to preserve your anonymity. g5grosof@outlook.com - Concerned Citizens for Coop Reform

Rosa and Geri, believe me I don't disagree with many of the things you say but I believe you have picked the wrong forum to say them. The very name Board Talk should tell you that you are dealing with board members who are not going to like being lumped together as the crooks or naive idiots you seem to think we all are. I live in a Coop that is owned by the shareholders, there are only a few sponsor apartments left, and the board members live here and are known to everyone.
I got on my board because I believed, through items in the minutes, that our managing agent was either a bad businessman or stealing our money. It turned out he was stealing. It took a long time to convince the majority of the Coop Board that this fellow who they trusted for years would steal from them. Eventually we were lucky to get rid of him and have a new managing agent in place right before his misdeeds came to light.
You are correct that Coops are run by all kinds of people many without business backgrounds and vulnerable to all kinds of problems. They are stuck with aging properties that the landlords were lucky to get off their hands before they had to pay for the repairs, and budgets that have to be increased yearly because heating costs, water, taxes and staff expenses are constantly rising while our shareholder salaries are not. This is why we need Board Talk as the resource to board members that it was meant to be.
While I have a business background I had to learn this particular business and Habitat and this forum are resources that enable me to do so. We need this forum to discuss and educate ourselves. Please let us have it back while you continue your crusade elsewhere.

The best way for board members to learn is to hear from the abuse and fraud that is going on. Also that they could end up in jail by violating their duries to us the shareholders. You are lucky has a few apts. In my coop, like most coop from the 80's, the aponsor owns more that 50%. He is running a business at our expense. Yes the landlord wanted to avoid rent regulions and created the coops. Took our money but kept more than 50%. He still control any decion in the coops. Then he created a management company and manage the coop with a one way contract that only benefit him. We have a president for life who only protect the sponsor interest. We need laws and the AG and DA to get involve. We are not second class citizens. We need protection under the law. Register in COOPABUSE.COM to get protection for our home. Also email me ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM. Chris you learn from the people not from the abuser.

Chris, thanks so much for your spot-on reply (below) to Rosa and Jerry. No one disputes that there are bad and sleazy board members out there, but those are exactly the people who are NOT going to be coming to Board Talk for discussion. The board members who contribute here are those interested in performing their unpaid and often thankless jobs *better*, not people asking how they can more effectively embezzle funds to pay for their new Rolls-Royce.

As for the abatement/assessment issue, refer to the discussion on this Board Talk thread: http://www.habitatmag.com/Board-Talk/Assessments-and-smart-planning. (note that the period at the end is part of the URL).

To quote one of my own comments on that thread, "It's perfectly fair either way - and shareholders will pay basically the same amount of money in both cases - but it's difficult to explain to shareholders and you're bound to annoy some people no matter how you do it."

Chris, I am a shareholder and believe me I would love to rent. Renters have rights we do not. We paid for buying a membership in a coop where we get abused and influentially destroy. Shareholders are given a proprietary lease which have an expiration date. On this date we have to return the apt to the coop. They claimed the expiration date would be extended but it is not guarantee. So what do we have. Our children can't inherit the apt. They have to pay a lot of money to stay in th apt; it is like buying it again. Shareholders need to wake up. We were sold the George Washington Bridge. They borrow so much money that banks are reluctant to lend money to coop buyers. People buying coops have to pay all cash or take a loan from a abusive bank. We don't have anything. We were shown a apartment as a home but we were sold a membership in a club where we are abused and our money is taken. REGISTER IN COOPABUSE.COMto fight together and get protection for our home. Also email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM

chris, thank you, thank you, thank you for what you said.

rosa nazar, get your personal agenda off of here. you comment on EVERY thread i read and NEVER ever have anything substantive to say. it's all about your own agenda. ditto Carmen.

if you want to continue to spew this nonsense go set up your own page. leave this to people who want to get useful information.

to abcde,
the basic agenda here is to overcome dated, undemocratic co-op laws that allow predators opportunity. i know there are good co-op board members because there were many in my previous co-op.
now, as a shareholder in a co-op with a corrupt managing agent and co-op lawyer who easily bamboozle a naive board into money making lawsuits for 'our' lawyer, i appreciate the information posted here.
your explanation of assessing of STAR is helpful. but
your attack on the posts here, especially with petty mentions of misspelling, bring your motives into question.

Mr. Board president, I hope you are not a president for life. I found difficult to believe that somebody who is not getting anything in return wants to stay doing such a difficult job. We need transparency and we are a movement to bring reform and eliminate and send to jail the abuser. You need to come to reality and see it as it is the coop was a fraud from the beginning. We have no laws that protects our home. People with no mortgage are the main target especially if they are old. Perhaps you should look at COOPABUSE.COM to read about the horror coop stories. We are not keeping silent any more. So if you are such a dedicated president open the books to all shareholders, be transparents and make sure nobody is commining fraud and if they are make sure you bring them to justice. Email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM and register at COOPABUSE.COM to be part make sure laws are change to protect our home. We can loose our free-mortgage home just for owing a fee dollars and because boards and managent add usury charges. This has to stop and we are going to stop it.

First in this coop i wrote of, the STAR money gets paid to the people every month, so the coop does not get a penny of it, that is why i was questioning seeing it as income on the budget sheets. The building takes the lump sum and doles it out monthly, however other coops with the same managing company that have owners , not full of subleasers.do noy let that happen, and they take the lump sum
If the coop is withjolding the STAR and keeping it, i believe the real estate company would lose its license, and the BOD would be charged for theft

The suggestion to find a lawyer to handle a class action against the AG’s office should be looked into – I am sure there are hungry lawyers out there and anyone who filed a complaint with AGs office could be counted.

Yes we need a class action law suit. We are the only Americans who do not have protection for our family home. This is because the real state lobbies make sure they protect the coop interest not our (sponsor still own more than 50% in most coops). In my coop the management company was a company of the sponsor (remember the landlord who converted his building to coop to avoid NYC rent regulations of the 70's). One day, we manage to removed the president for life, and when the new president questioned why some checks were being paid from our coop accounts, the management company cancel our contract immediately (but only for the shareholders, they are still here managing the renting business of the sponsor who still own more than 50% of our coop). We are Americans without home rights. A home is a human right. Yes we need to keep fighting to get our freedom but we can only do it together. NO WE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. That is what politicians try to tell us "you are an isolated incident". Why don't you take a look of our website COOPABUSE.COM so you can see by yourself. As a matter of fact every time I post something I get a few emails from abused shareholders who join our cause. As a matter of fact we are looking for a lawyer to take our class action case against the estate and maybe attorney general because we are the only American who has no right to protect our home in bankruptcy court, housing court and they failed to act no matter how much we complained. Maybe they will listen to us in court. Any lawyer or anybody who wants to know more about us email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM

There are 30 claims needed for class action - not very many when you count all the corrupt buildings and the amount of units in each one.

Seems like there are many incorrect statements happening here.

Stop and think - would you rather pay another point or 2 in maintenance or have your STAR assesses? Assume that assessing STAR gets your building $20,000 and that you would pay a 2% maintenance increase if your building did not assess. If your maintenance is $1000, yes, your maintenance increase, on a yearly basis, would be slightly less than the STAR assessment.

BUT - two factors, your 2% is year on year, so the next year, your increase is higher because of that 2% AND - buyers aren't concerned about the STAR assessment - they are concerned about maintenance.

ROSA, there is no conspiracy. Well-run buildings make the right decision when they assess STAR. You are misleading people with your rant and your rhetoric.

It is not mandatory that there is a increase every year. That is why we are a coop not a rental. Howeverr, in most coops the holder of unsold share is running a rental business at our expense. His tenants do not have to be approve by the board. Who do you think waste more water and call mere for repairs? Well the tenants of the HUS and we paid for it. In my coop one board member dare to confront this and to question the coop finantial and they destroyed her by intimidating her. We are not free till the HUS is less than 10%. We are second class citizens leaving under a dictatorship. We were promise a community enviroment but it was only a promise. We were shown a home for sale but we bought a certicate of share or better said a membership to a place where we could be abused. Time for the AG to get involved. Time for a class action law sue. Look at COOPABUSE.COM and register to be part of the coop reform. Also email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM

Is this an HPD recently built building?

You have to read your proprietary lease I live in a co-op it's the shareholders responsibility

Your lease should clarify responsibility. In our coop, building is responsibile for the wires up to the box from the basement. The box, breakers, and all other wiring inside the apt. is the unit owners responsibility. Boxes rarely go bad, but if you have a Federal box from the 50's - 80's? you might want to replace at least the breakers with the new style. The old Federal breakers were often defective.

in this coop, iwe had the elctrical upgraded from fuses to ckt breakers and the bldg paid for that, we probably had an assessment too. If we wanted an aditional line a air conditioner with a 20 amp ckt., we paid the cost of the additional line installation.
You here everything inside the walls is the bldg and walls out is shareholders, but every building is different
Plus you can get into really tricky stuff with the utilities if they go through the lower apartments, and the lower unit resident doesn't realize the wires are live and feed upstairs, and cuts them during a remodeling.,

It is amazing how boards think they are above the law. As far as I understand it is the law they have to sent a annual financial report. Coops are a complete fraud and the sad part is that we have no laws that protect our home. we can loose our home just because they add usury legal and other fees. We need to fight together to demand politicians to pass law to protect our home. Check out COOPABUSE.COM and register to get information about our effort to pass laws. Also email me at ROSA.NAZAR@GMAIL.COM because if we fight together we can finish with this abuse.

We receive the annual report, but not the budget, which shareholders might find informative, as it indicates projected expenses for maintenance, heat, staffing, etc.

We had a budget where there was a 30,000 mistake , not in our favor, for a expense that was constant every year.
I realized that the management company had to be farming out the financials to a party that was not familiar with the cost of items like yearly insurance.
It would be the same as if i budgeted $50 for the two cars auto insurance , with full coverage, and didn't think that was off.,t
he real deal is the financials especially the miscellaneous , where they hide a lot of stuff, especially since we hearof more and more coopos refusing to breakdown $50k to 1million in miscellaneous. what is actually spent, and when they refuse to disclose that, you know there is something going on. #1 it is the law, and #2 it reeks of fraud and corruption and being above any laws.
We need to have a coop of shareowners to check prices in our area as a a COOPERATIVE GROUP> and to check the work of the companies, start becoming real coops , and throw these management companies to the media wolves.

Media is a good way to expose these real estate companies. Many are also in the selling business and have many properties they handle, No one is going to buy ANY of their properties once this refusal to follow the laws and redisal for trqnsparancy, through in all the self dealing.
I would think it would be a tort if a pre conversion owner now is lossing 40% or more on their property because the true , not the fraudulent owner -occupancy ratio has been exposed, among other items,like refusal to show the financials. Especially when the sellers are senior citizens or disabled. i am starting to think that a regular law suit lawyer may be all that is needed, since the evidence has already been gathered, and the financials will be the fatal blow when the alleged upstanding owner of the management company is exposed for the madhoff like person he is.`I have a couple cases in thos bldg i am looking at that angle, one seller lost about 40%, and a board members mother bought the apartment. Due to his refusal to perform his due diligence and fiduciary duties , a family member gains. I do not think that would look good in front of a jury. Another board member bought unsold shares for a song, after 25 years of it being occupied by a rent controlled tenant. I havent had time to check if he was legally allowed to buy unsold shares.

We have to get aggressive with this corruption – since elected officials don’t listen – we must begin picketing them – especially now that Kathleen Rice is said to run for the Senate. She should answer for the fact that she doesn’t prosecute condo corruption.

I think you have a right to see it. Our co-op Prop Lease and By Laws say shareholders are entitled to an annual financial report, which is prepared by the co-op's accountant and includes the budget. It also may be state law, see BCL 624.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/BSC/6/624

I believe Co-ops are required to prepare annual audited financial statements, but the budget is not part of those statements. If a co-op is not sold out, the sponsor is required to prepare an annual amendment to the prospectus in NYS. Usually, the budget is included in that document, which would also list the unsold units and other investments of the sponsor. We usually provide copies of our budget at our annual owners meeting in the spring.

The reports provided to the board by the management company are generally not intended for inspection by other shareholders or buyers. Other shareholders have no right to know specifically who is behind in their maintenance, for example. The board meeting minutes however can be viewed if requested. Minutes are often brief comments on the meeting/agenda without going into extensive details which may prove to be fodder later for lawsuits.

If a shareholder requests to see the monthly reports they do have that right. There is a great article in the Cooperator " Watch Your Mouth"a few years(2011) back that touches on your concerns about shareholders who are in arrears in their maintenance and how the board should handle it. " The community has the right to know what's affecting their value of their investment " Harting explains. If their neighbor is a deadbeat, they have the right to know that. But, she adds, if they go on to say, "and by the way, they have stiffed every guy in town' without conducting an investigation as to whether that's true-that crosses the line."

It is a great article for anyone who contributes to the discussion in Board Talk. Another quote from the article that is worth sharing "According to the pros, defamation occurs when you publicly malign someone's character by accusing him or her of doing something that is reprehensible or criminal, and thereby damage their reputation. Written defamation is called libel, and defamation that is spoken is called slander. If they can substantiate in court, damages that result from such statements can result in heavy penalties."

There was another article in the New York Times about a newly elected board member that asked the president of the board to see the monthly reports. The president declined the new board member the reports. The new board member thought the the president was behind in his maintenance and that is why he refused to show the report. The lawyer that answered his question stated that not only did the new board member have the right to see the report but anyone that is a shareholder has that right. There are two reasons why shareholders have the right to know if the president or anyone in a co-op or condo is behind in their maintenance. One is that maintenance is part of the finances of the corporation and the shareholders have the right to view all the financial information and also that if someone is late in their maintenance they are violating their lease or contract with the co-op or condo and that is also a shareholders right to know.

Transparency is the best way to run a co-op or condo. But you have to be careful not to step over the line and abuse the information that is given out.

If a shareholder requests to see the monthly reports they do have that right. There is a great article in the Cooperator " Watch Your Mouth"a few years(2011) back that touches on your concerns about shareholders who are in arrears in their maintenance and how the board should handle it. " The community has the right to know what's affecting their value of their investment " Harting explains. If their neighbor is a deadbeat, they have the right to know that. But, she adds, if they go on to say, "and by the way, they have stiffed every guy in town' without conducting an investigation as to whether that's true-that crosses the line."

It is a great article for anyone who contributes to the discussion in Board Talk. Another quote from the article that is worth sharing "According to the pros, defamation occurs when you publicly malign someone's character by accusing him or her of doing something that is reprehensible or criminal, and thereby damage their reputation. Written defamation is called libel, and defamation that is spoken is called slander. If they can substantiate in court, damages that result from such statements can result in heavy penalties."

There was another article in the New York Times about a newly elected board member that asked the president of the board to see the monthly reports. The president declined the new board member the reports. The new board member thought the the president was behind in his maintenance and that is why he refused to show the report. The lawyer that answered his question stated that not only did the new board member have the right to see the report but anyone that is a shareholder has that right. There are two reasons why shareholders have the right to know if the president or anyone in a co-op or condo is behind in their maintenance. One is that maintenance is part of the finances of the corporation and the shareholders have the right to view all the financial information and also that if someone is late in their maintenance they are violating their lease or contract with the co-op or condo and that is also a shareholders right to know.

Transparency is the best way to run a co-op or condo. But you have to be careful not to step over the line and abuse the information that is given out.

If a shareholder requests to see the monthly reports they do have that right. There is a great article in the Cooperator " Watch Your Mouth"a few years(2011) back that touches on your concerns about shareholders who are in arrears in their maintenance and how the board should handle it. " The community has the right to know what's affecting their value of their investment " Harting explains. If their neighbor is a deadbeat, they have the right to know that. But, she adds, if they go on to say, "and by the way, they have stiffed every guy in town' without conducting an investigation as to whether that's true-that crosses the line."

It is a great article for anyone who contributes to the discussion in Board Talk. Another quote from the article that is worth sharing "According to the pros, defamation occurs when you publicly malign someone's character by accusing him or her of doing something that is reprehensible or criminal, and thereby damage their reputation. Written defamation is called libel, and defamation that is spoken is called slander. If they can substantiate in court, damages that result from such statements can result in heavy penalties."

There was another article in the New York Times about a newly elected board member that asked the president of the board to see the monthly reports. The president declined the new board member the reports. The new board member thought the the president was behind in his maintenance and that is why he refused to show the report. The lawyer that answered his question stated that not only did the new board member have the right to see the report but anyone that is a shareholder has that right. There are two reasons why shareholders have the right to know if the president or anyone in a co-op or condo is behind in their maintenance. One is that maintenance is part of the finances of the corporation and the shareholders have the right to view all the financial information and also that if someone is late in their maintenance they are violating their lease or contract with the co-op or condo and that is also a shareholders right to know.

Transparency is the best way to run a co-op or condo. But you have to be careful not to step over the line and abuse the information that is given out.

talk to your current mortgage lender first. Also check your mortgage terms to see if you are even allowed to do secondary financing. You can always do things without a broker but you need someone that knows the mortgage market.

If you you use "consultants" they will alway try to get you to replace elevators that are not actually broken. They will claim they are obsolete. This also depends on the age of you elevator.. if it is old and the "drum" is fine, do NOT replace it until ithe drum breaks. They try to sell you on replacement as the contract is so big. Sometimes managing agents also push for this. The lesson: do your due diligence. Talk to companies that actually repair and maintain elevators and not consultants if you want objective advice.

"managing agent employees putting their hands in the co-op and condo cookie jars. The favorite cookie seems to be price fixing of large repair or capital improvement programs where thousands of dollars are paid by the building to contractors, engineers and architects. The prices of the jobs are inflated and everybody skims a little off the top"

Allegra T. is totally and absolutely correct. In our building, we have two elevators (2 buildings, 6-floors each), which needed "repairs", the Managing Agents tells the corrupted fools in the Board. These are 25-years old elevators, who were already cosmetically renovated 5 years ago to the tune of $7.000. "That's not enough", says the Hungry Wolf, "we need to renovate the entire elevator system, $260.000". We organized petitions of residents shareholders telling the corrupted fools in the Board, that the elevators were working reasonably well, and such expenditure was not needed. To no avail. The job was done (2 months of construction) and we were imposed a 5% assessment for 5 years. An investigation of the contractors industry revealed that the whole renovation work could be done for only $40K per elevator, $80.000 total for both. So, right there you can detect a " small" skimming of $180.000! These peoples, named by Allegra as contractors, engineers, architects, all of them under the command of the Managing Agent, and they are mafia. They are insaciable parasitic predators, and won't stop their feeding frenzy until they have banrupted the coops. All coops. We are in the grip of several mafias. May the gods have mercy on us, and send us a champion to defend the resident coop shareholders. Jerry Grosof, Concerned Citizens for Coop Reform. g5grosof@msn.com

since you are a 6 story building the chances are that you only have one elevator. If you plan the replacement in advance the job can take up to 3 months if you need to replace everything including motors and controllers.
If you have a major breakdown and need to replace the elevator on an emergency basis you can add months to the replacement time. Do it in a way so you can plan the job otherwise you will be in a walkup building for a lot longer than you need to be. Even if you have more than one elevator, if they are old you have frequent breakdowns. Replace on your terms.

i hate when people use this questions for their own agendas.

recommend you get a recommendation from your accountant and one from your attorney on the financing. you can of course look at an assessment for part of it. you may want to consider that because the additional financing ups your maintenance and that's a bigger red flag for buyers than an assessment.

as far as whether or not you need an elevator and how much it should cost:
-yes, get more than one reputable company to inspect
-if you move forward, i assume you have an intelligent board who reviews the bids. triple, quadruple, quintuple bid it. ask your friends on other boards who they have used. we just did our LL11 work and got 6 bids. we know we got a good price. not everyone is out to cheat someone.

Mr. fghtth: why don't you reveal the actual "good price" you got for your elevator? That way we can compare with the one we got: $40,000 per elevator, $80K for both, as opposed to the $260.000 that our management "assessed" us for. As for having an "intelligent board", that's a tall order: we don't know the directors, they don't release resumes, they don't reveal their level of education or qualifications to serve in the board, we don't even know where they live, or the email addresses.. For the two "renewable" directorships, they always select the newest arrivals, who must necessarily be dumb because of their ignorance of the coop affairs; they are insignificant people who automatically follow the elders of the "board", originally appointed by the Sponsor, who have been in power for 25 years.
And, Mr. fhgtth: don't get so angry with shareholders who question the board, observe the coop scene, compare notes and draw conclusions: this is not an "agenda": it is our fundamental right as shareholders. This is also called the "pursue of knowledge", a fundamental right of the individual in the western democracies since the times of Socrates. It is also called "transparency" in business & corporate affairs, a concept abhorred by our secretive unscrutable, autocratic despotic boards. Exactly as the sponsor wanted them (our sponsor, now called HUS, has been here for 25 years, and has no intention of ever leaving. He's not going "to walk away from his investment", he claims). Jerry Grosof - Concerned Citizens for Coop Reform - g5grosof@msn.com,
P.S.: Who's in charge of collecting the list of "bad" managing companies? I want to contribute ours to the list.

Mr. fghtth: why don't you reveal the actual "good price" you got for your elevator? That way we can compare with the one we got: $40,000 per elevator, $80K for both, as opposed to the $260.000 that our management "assessed" us for. As for having an "intelligent board", that's a tall order: we don't know the directors, they don't release resumes, they don't reveal their level of education or qualifications to serve in the board, we don't even know where they live, or the email addresses.. For the two "renewable" directorships, they always select the newest arrivals, who must necessarily be dumb because of their ignorance of the coop affairs; they are insignificant people who automatically follow the elders of the "board", originally appointed by the Sponsor, who have been in power for 25 years.
And, Mr. fhgtth: don't get so angry with shareholders who question the board, observe the coop scene, compare notes and draw conclusions: this is not an "agenda": it is our fundamental right as shareholders. This is also called the "pursue of knowledge", a fundamental right of the individual in the western democracies since the times of Socrates. It is also called "transparency" in business & corporate affairs, a concept abhorred by our secretive unscrutable, autocratic despotic boards. Exactly as the sponsor wanted them (our sponsor, now called HUS, has been here for 25 years, and has no intention of ever leaving. He's not going "to walk away from his investment", he claims). Jerry Grosof - Concerned Citizens for Coop Reform - g5grosof@msn.com,
P.S.: Who's in charge of collecting the list of "bad" managing companies? I want to contribute ours to the list.

I would find it cheaper to self-finance, by the coop itself imposing a special assessment towards the total price of the elevator (about $50K?), projecting it over the next 3 years or so. But if you want want a bank, google www.ASK.com, then write Bank Rates, and they will give a choice of banks offering short term loans at about $2.70% to 3%.