If the problem is outside the envelope of the unit (four walls of the periphery, floor, and ceiling) then most likely the co-op is. If it is anywhere inside the apartment envelope, then the shareholder most likely is.

A reasonable line of demarcation is the circuit breaker panel. If the problem is located anywhere before the main building feeder enters the breaker panel, it's most likely the co-op. If the problem is located with a circuit breaker or any of the distribution lines it controls, then most likely the shareholder.

Read your proprietary lease to see if there are any special provisions. A rule-of-thumb we use to determine responsibility is anything outside of the envelope is common area and the responsibility of the co-op corporation. Anything inside the envelope is the responsibility of the shareholder.

Your mileage may vary. :-)

Wiring and pipes inside the wall is the Coop/Condo's responsible. Contact your managing agent to have a license electrician to check to see what the problem is. Then go by his/her suggestion. Good Luck.

Everything within the walls is the coops responsibility. Electric and pluming.

The only exception is if you open the wall and cause damage to pipes

In my building the separation between co-op responsibility and shareholder responsibility is the "envelope" of the unit - the four wall enclosing the unit, the floor, and the ceiling. A wall that is inside the envelope, i.e. between two rooms in the apartment, is not considered a common area.

The exception to this is original building services such as plumbing wet walls and electrical risers that may run through an interior wall are still the co-op's responsibility. The same is true for telephone trunk lines, intercom trunk lines, cable and FiOS backbone lines, etc. The guide we us is "if the service affects more than one unit, responsibility belongs to the co-op. If the service is used exclusively by the shareholder owners of the unit, they are responsible."

Sometimes this level of granularity is needed to avoid protracted disagreements. It's pretty easy for most shareholders to understand. You should also find wording in your proprietary lease that describes the boundaries of an apartment and who is responsible for what.

There is an old wise tale about mothballs, they where used as killing bed bugs. Which does not work. This is cause to gain access to her apt. and inspect it. If it was me I'd call the police dept. and explain to them your neighbor is using mothballs to cover up something. Maybe they can gain access to the apt. or can advise you what you can do. If all else fails your family needs to go to a safe place. Mothballs can burn your lungs so go to your Dr. for a check up and then to your lawyer. Best of Luck.

At least the mgmt. co. is on your side and trying to do something. That's a good first step. And unfortunately, it does take time. (We've been trying to stop an older woman in my coop who has cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars in complaints.) I like the other commentator's suggestions and agree that you should start to build your own legal case, by getting a medical check-up... especially for your child. Is this person an owner or a tenant? If tenant, contact her landlord directly. If she's a shut-in and unstable, you can try contacting Adult Protective Services. It, too, isn't an easy route, but it's worth a try. Good luck.

The neighbor is an owner, not a tenant. The police have come, when she banged on our door to harass us for complaining, and they smelled the mothballs but said there is nothing they can do. They just told her to leave us alone. She's been taken out of there on wellness checks and was back the next day. Her family doesn't seem to want to deal with her. It's a nightmare.

A few suggestions, but not sure if any will work:

1) Contact your insurance company and see if they have any suggestions or courses of action you can take. Read your policy first to make sure you understand what you're being told.

2) Contact a professional air quality inspection company. One that advertises on local NYC talk radio is RTK Environmental, but this is definitely not a recommendation, only an example. Use Google to see if there are any that specialize in inter-apartment odor transmission or mothball products. Your insurance company may be able to recommend one or reimburse you for the service.

3) If you have an attorney, get in touch with her/him. This situation may require legal action on your part and your attorney will help you get prepared and collect information.

Do your condo docs mention how to handle nuisance issues? We are using that clause to require residents who are heavy smokers to take action to prevent the migration of smoke to other units. We are finding we can require air cleaners which will help a little. For mothballs, a health and safety nuisance might be in order, if it's in your docs.

our proprietary lease notes that any smell that escapes apartment is a violation. yours should say the same. board doesn't need to build a case - all they have to do is send a notice to cure.

contact your fire department ask them to inspect the area where they are leaving it. If it is a fire hazard, the FD may fine both the owner and the managing company=
if they leave it a second time ,they may remove the object

If all reasonable requests have gone unanswered (the Board, Management company, etc.) (1) call the local FDNY and request an inspection. But be prepared for possible additional kickback... Random objects in common spaces are a fire violation, so your building may get fined. But if that's the only way to wake people up and change this dangerous, self-serving, habit, so be it. (2) Also, document it—photograph anything left in the hall. (3) Find out if the offending family are shareholders or tenants. If the latter, contact their landlord, who would be a shareholder.

DP said it well, I find this disturbing that your board, management, super and neighbors are allowing this to continue. You can go down to the nearest FD with pictures in hand and remain animus. By your board not acting on this and your building does pay a fine I find this sad. I wonder if one of the board members would be in your place what would they do? Let us know if this worked. Best of Luck

Absolutely normal. In fact, below normal and the sign of a fiscally well-managed co-op corporation.

Inflation is currently running between 1.5% and 2%. Simply for that reason alone maintenance needs to increase 1.5% to 2% just to break even with the costs of monthly co-op operations.

One of the biggest drivers of maintenance increases is the annual increase in real estate taxes. In our building these taxes are over 40% of our annual maintenance. We're looking at a 7% tax increase for TY'18, which translates to a 3% maintenance increase.

Sometimes you hear how a board prides itself on "never" increasing maintenance. Show me a board that does that for too long and I'll show you a co-op that is facing a huge assessment, eventual 10% to 20% maintenance increases, or a building about to go bankrupt.

From what you wrote, consider yourself lucky to be living in a building with good governance.

Although this is normal, there's plenty of inefficiencies that can be removed that will provide savings that can be used to prevent maintenance increases. One of our buildings did not need to raise maintenance for 6 years, while at the same time increasing cash balance, all from reducing costs.

Some of the things your maintainance has to cover are Labor contracts which have clauses the escalate annually, real estate taxes which seem to go up yearly, the cost of water has almost tripled in the last 10 years, along with other utilities and service contracts. So is it normal? I would say yes.
That said you should receive an audited financial statement, have a good look at the fixed costs

A Well managed board would look around and find ways to raise money, this is called Amenities. Do you or can your building have cell phone towers? If not find out if it can, this will be rented out for the use of them. It pays big. Does your building have storage? If not this can be a good Amenity just look around or in basement area for bike storage baby carriages anything that can charge a fee. To help your building make money for fixing up your building.
Does your co op have parking/garage this is a big Amenity, Does your co op rent the laundry room to the company are they paying rent for the laundry room rent for the rooms they have to pay the co ops. Look into all of these AMENITIES it's extremely your co op raises extra money to have a lower maintenance. By making your co op with low maintenance you'll get top dollar if you decide to sell. Read the report that you will be receiving very soon.

PC #1, I must respectfully disagree. What you are describing does not help a building make money. It is simply a zero-sum proposition which shifts financial responsibility away from being equitably distributed among all shareholders and onto the backs of those shareholders who either need or desire the "amenities", as you call them.

The model you described is identical to what the airlines have been doing for years; keeping constant or reducing the cost of an actual flight ticket, but making up the lost revenue in all sorts of nuisance fees. This has not proven to be a very popular scheme for the airlines and I feel sorry the board that adopts it.

The other shortcoming of the amenity-fee concept is a co-op or condo must have a guaranteed stream of income to meet its financial obligations. Increasing maintenance by a small amount each year insures a steady flow of money because maintenance is non-discretionary for the shareholders.

Charging fees for amenities is risky because amenities *are* discretionary expenses. If enough shareholders decide the value of an amenity is not worth the cost, they'll simply not pay for it. The co-op loses the income, and generates ill-will in the process.

Most co-op and condo buyers (or their attorneys) today are sophisticated enough to see through the rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul financing model and look at the entire financial environment. Not raising maintenance (unless there are solid extenuating circumstances like the 2008-2009 recession) is a clear warning sign that the building is heading towards financial problems in the future.

I agree with Steven424. Other than possible income from cell towers, the other suggested charges are negligible in a building budget, that may be well in excess of $500k for a 50 unit building. Cell towers may be lucrative, but the owners in our building voted it down years ago due to health concerns, whether founded or not.
Annual or maybe every other year increases are needed to keep up with inflation. An alternative is to have increasing assessments to cover costs. Our owners voted to freeze the maintenance last year and to increase the annual assessment. We offset the assessments with the coop tax credits and STAR so we still need to pull some $ from our pockets each year. We'll see how that goes for a couple years.
Amenities such as bike storage save the hallways and elevators from damage and storage lockers are an obvious convenience, if space is available. Laundry facilities are great and will provide a steady but small revenue stream as well. Usually, the gas, water and electric are provided by the building, which will offset the rent collected.

With increasing maintenance at that rate your value of your co-op/condo apartments will not sell if you charge let's say $700.00 a month with no Amenities and it keeps on going up why should I stay, or buy into your place when others give gyms,storage,off the street parking and monthly maintenance is low with a well maintained clean building and great workers. Real Estate can go down it's hard to sell at a high maintenance and pay a mortgage. So how's it going for you? I guess you can afford to keep carrying this high cost of living. Some share holders can't. Be careful of foreclosure. Then how would your building handle this? It's call maintenance, not rent that applies to Amenities.

I'm curious. What is the monthly maintenance of the building you described which has a gym, storage, off-street parking, and what is its location. I, personally, wouldn't use any of those three amenities, so I guess I'd be a slacker in contributing to the finances.

What would your co-op do if, say, the cost of doing laundry or storing strollers and bikes became so high (because co-op operating expenses have a nasty habit of increasing all the time so the amenity prices would also have to increase), that shareholders decide they'd rather use the corner laundromat or store their bikes in their apartments. You can't hold a gun to their heads to pay for amenities. Where would the money come from to cover required co-op expenses?

PC #1, I have a question I've been meaning to ask. In your April 18th post you mentioned a report we'd be receiving shortly. When do you think it will be published and we'll be receiving it? As an eight year board treasurer I'm always interested in reading about new and creative ways of reducing maintenance.

Thanks!

Steven eight year board treasurer congratulations, but with due respect. It's not about You. It's about the share holders /condo owners that want and need these. Not what you need to over ride them. I can't make you look around your place to make it better or improve it. The place you live at are they happy? What do they want? Or are they angry or upset?
Like I said with due respect, It's Not About You.
I'm speaking from being on the board 18 yrs. The key is Listen. If you need to know all my personal info. your not doing your building a service. Your the eight year board treasurer look at the books, figure out how you can reduce cost. Just saying, I don't want to tell you how to do your job. I know it's hard.

Thanks

It is really about examining every single cost for tightening. Your insurance can be negotiated, your energy consumption can always be reduced - where else is money leaking? Are you wasting money/ increasing the debt on non- discretionary projects?
Don't take 'this is how it is' for an answer from your managing agent - make them show you savings. Be pro-active. Do not drink the cool-aide. Sit down and do the work.
We have NOT had a mntnce increase every single year in our Manhattan cooperative.

DM - All boards, and especially their treasurers, should be doing what you recommend as a matter of course, year after year after year. Any board that cedes all cost reduction responsibilities to their managing agent is not working for the benefit of their co-op.

I have a question for you. How do you cover non-discretionary increases like real estate taxes, staff salary and benefits, water & sewage fees, etc. What do you do to pay for the increases instead of increasing maintenance?

Exactly, and that is the spirit in which I was asking.

As board treasurer I am the most familiar with my Co-op's finances. We are located in an area of Brooklyn that has seen extraordinary real estate tax increases in the past few years, even with aggressive Certiorari challenges. So any suggestions of ways I can advise my board to keep maintenance as steady as possible is something that grabs my attention.

To answer your question, our shareholders are, for the most part, happy and content with the way the building is being managed by the board. Of course they grouse about maintenance increases, but we are completely open and honest about building finances. We make sure shareholders fully understand the reasons for any increases.

They also appreciate our trying to fairly distribute the Co-op's financial burden among all shareholders. For example, we have ample space in our basement for storage cages. A number of years ago we built enough cages so every apartment can have at least one, with some left over. We sold the cages, one to an apartment, at cost, because the board believed additional storage is more a necessity than an amenity. We limited ownership to one cage per apartment so no individual shareholder could buy up all the cages and corner the market.

We rent all unsold cages at $35/month. Rentals come with the understanding that if an apartment that does not already own a cage decides they want to purchase one, the Co-op has the right to terminate a rental (LIFO) with six months notice. We felt this was the most fair and equitable way of eventually making permanent storage space available to *every* shareholders. We did not feel it was fair to charge hundreds of dollars per month for cages, because community goodwill is very important to us. If a shareholder requires a cage, their rental fees should not be used to subsidize other shareholders, and we try to prevent the less affluent in our community from having to do without because they can't afford it.

I'm not interested in any personal info. Since you were suggesting charging for amenities as a way of offsetting maintenance increases, I thought your particular situation might serve as a good example of how this works in practice.

So thanks in advance for any additional info you care to share.

Steven, Steven Have you ever gone to the CNYC in Nov.? DM gave some good advice. Remember the market is hot in Bklyn hardly any inventory to meet the buyers. If your maintenance is too high and your sellers want to sell you've dug your owners a disservice by having a maintenance increase every yr. As DM said "It is really about examining every single cost for tightening. Your insurance can be negotiated, your energy consumption can always be reduced - where else is money leaking? Are you wasting money/ increasing the debt on non- discretionary projects?
Don't take 'this is how it is' for an answer from your managing agent - make them show you savings. Be pro-active. Do not drink the cool-aide. Sit down and do the work.
We have NOT had a mntnce increase every single year in our Manhattan cooperative"

I've been to CNYC many times.

Every apartment sale in my building in the past few years has gone for offering price or higher. We've had a maintenance increase every year and it has not hurt sales nor owner satisfaction.

I'm sorry you seem to be having such a chronic problem with your managing agent that you need to double-check their every utterance. You should consider hiring an MA you can trust to do a good job.

When can we expect the report you promised in your post on April 18th about ways of reducing costs so shareholders can receive top dollar when they sell? I'm looking forward to reading it because I'm sure it will help me do my work.

Three month *is* a long time to wait, but there may be extenuating circumstances. Have you discussed this with the real estate broker who made the sale? They and the purchaser should be as eager as you are to move the sale to closing. You might ask your attorney who is handling the legal aspects of the transaction if she/he has any insight into the delay or if she/he can make any sort of inquiry.

Unfortunately there is a scenario which might be in play here. If the seller received a higher offer after you went into contract, they might be trying to have the board stall and ultimately reject you as a purchaser. That would be a "clean" (although highly unethical and quasi-illegal) way to terminate the contract. Unethical boards would see it to their advantage to have the apartment go for the highest price possible because it becomes a comparable and enhances the value of all future sales in the building.

Lets think positive for now. The board could be grappling with an urgent internal matter that leaves little time for them to review your financial package and schedule the interview. Key members of the board may be unavoidably unavailable. There may be other sales in front of yours and they review them in first-in, first-out order. The board may have a collective over-sized sense of self-importance which they like to flex in front of a powerless purchaser, and in the end you'll be approved. It may simply be that this board drags its feet, and every purchaser in the building gets the same treatment.

Your attorney should be aware of the delay, so talk with her/him about it. I'm hoping that what they tell you will put your mind at ease.

Good luck!

It's too bad, it SO frustrating. I can't believe that there is no culpability to for this? The CO-OP board and its agents can just keep me hanging forever? I was supposed to close "on or about 30 days" from the signing of the contract. It's now 90 days.

Please call the real estate company you signed the contract with see what they say. If they tell you they are waiting for an interview or approval I would start thinking about how this board is operating. If they are so lacked about interviewing you who knows how they run the board & building. Going by my experience it doesn't take this long for approval after the managing agent looks through your package and financials and sends it to the board. Good luck.

First, I am not a lawyer. In this instance where someone is applying for assistance and many thousands of dollars may be at stake, I strongly urge you to tell your neighbor she/he needs to contact an attorney who specializes in the type of assistance they are applying for (disability, medicaid, SSI, etc).

Practically, it depends on who is asking the question and for what purpose. Here are some links that show how difficult it is to provide a one-size-fits-all answer:
https://nystax.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3470/~/are-co-ops-considered-real-property%3F
https://www.trulia.com/voices/Home_Buying/Is_buying_a_coop_apt_considered_as_a_real_estate_-56169
http://www.mcgrathesq.com/2014/08/18/coop-real-or-personal-property/

thank you you for the answer , i knew it was complicated., thanks for the links

Some coops lease, rather than own, the land beneath their building. In NYC, there are several dozen "land-lease" coops (also sometimes called "ground-lease" coops). The leases are for very long terms (i.e., 99 years or more), but they can pose special issues for the coop and its shareholders from time to time. If you want to email me your address offline, I can probably tell you if your coop leases the land. bdockwell@morrisoncohen.com

I would think the financial statements and proprietary lease would have to disclose that information. If there is a land lease, wouldn't that be an annual expense? At the end of the term of the lease, I would there would be some options stated, such as an option to extend, purchase the land, etc.
On a related note, the coops that I've seen issue a proprietary lease, usually for 99 years. Since many were formed in the 70's and 80's, we haven't seen what happens yet as those dates approach.

There are a *lot* of articles available online about the pros and cons of owning an apartment in a ground lease building. Some pro, mostly con. I put "NYC co-op ground lease" into Google and it returned pages and pages.

You might be able to use the Dept of Buildings websiet to determine if your building has a ground lease. Go to this URL: http://www1.nyc.gov/site/buildings/index.page and enter your building number and street. It returns a lot of information.

Good luck.

I found this quote online:

"Distribution of Abatements in Co-ops. The law requires that the tax year 2012/2013 abatement distributions be credited to owners “when received.”11 Historically, although no deadline is stated in the statute, the Finance Department has interpreted this language to mean that the credit must be issued to owners by the last day of the city’s tax year for which it was credited to the co-op’s tax bill. In previous years, the Finance Department issued Break Down Letters in November, which allowed co-op managers to distribute the credit within the remaining months of the city tax year, which ends June 30."

You can read the entire document (from a well-known real estate law firm) here: www.stroock.com/siteFiles/Pub1336.pdf Last page, middle column.

Please do not take this as sarcastic or flippant, but if you want a 100% guaranteed accurate answer, consult a practicing attorney.

Good luck

I agree with Steven's comment.

However, I might also suggest contacting the co-op's attorney and telling him/her that the co-op is trying to do work that requires licensed plumbers, and the co-op is not following that rule.

You might suggest to the attorney that they contact the Board and advise them that their actions are exposing the co-op to a multitude of potential legal and financial problems.

That might make the Board reconsider its positions and actions.

Good luck.

I am not an attorney, I am a shareholder that went through a similar situation with our superintendent, the board of directors and the managing agent.
There was a leak from my bathroom toilet to the bathroom below, which happens to be occupied by a board member. The managing agent wanted to send the super to remove my toilet and perhaps replace the wax seal or the pipe. I refused to have the super touch the project as he is total unqualified (I have asked to see his certificates in the past, but they refuse to show me) and I have photos of what he has repaired throughout the building and my apartment from the past, VERY UNPROFESSIONAL. I wrote a professional letter with photos to the managing agent, and the board member who's apartment was being effected by the leak below explaining why the super was unqualified and that I would not allow him in my apartment to do the repairs. I demanded that they hire a licensed plumber. Within a day, they had a licensed plumber to fix the broken pipe under the toilet.
If you can back up your request with justifiable reasoning, fight for what you believe is right and don't back down.

Deborah you are lucky that you were able to reason with them. The board and MA here are not approachable or reasonable. When I complained to the board pres about the constant renovations by the super he told me "If you don't like it you can leave. I had only been here one year, moving is not free, and I thought that the board would handle things. Very happy with that after caring for a home for over 15 years on my own. Just recently the super tried to charge me a $20 lock out fee. I told him I had no cash would he take a check? No he replied slide it under the door when you get the cash. I became suspicious and called the MA. I asked her what the lock out policy was. Her response "why Mary were you locked out? I asked her to refrain from an investigation and just answer the question. Well she did not know, so I asked her to look it up and foward the document to me. Well it turns out there is no lock out fee. No apology that the super tried to scam me. Then I informed the president of what occurred, I told him of another shareholder who fell for it. He did not bother to ask who and will most likely say the conversation never happened. But if the super is scamming people it is the boards responsibility to notify them of this transgression. There has been no attempt on their part to do this and I doubt they will. Instead they like to make up stories that I am crazy. This is only a small piece of this horrific story.
I do not believe the board in my building is acting in good faith. They are self serving, dishonest, and hostile. I have to move, that is the only real answer. The shareholders are univolved and apathetic. As long as it is not happening to them, they see no reason to intervene.
If feel like Kitty Genovese only the co-op version. I keep calling for help but they don't want to be involved, they figure someone else will help. So far no takers. You wouldn't believe what I have been through. And it's because it is really just unbelievable, but unfortunately true. I have the documents and recording to prove every word I have said here. But no one cares about the facts.... Kinda like a lynch mob. The place is leaking like a sieve from the former supers repairs, yet it is business as usual. I had a nice elderly gentleman neighbor who just passed away. But not before they could flood him one more time in the last months of his life. They probably expodided his demise, yet they continue business as usual. This is one motley crew and no advise is going to change them. I don't mean to be rude but there is no civility here. I just need to get out before they put me in an early grave.

The former super drilled 2 holes in the wall of the bathroom above me for the specific purpose of flooding me. I have the photos so there is no disputing this fact. The president/treasurer uses my upstairs neighbor as a booty call. She calls it love but I see it for what it is. She refused to provide her insurance information and that was ok with him and the rest of the board. I told him that if he wanted to know the truth he should speak with the plumber. His reply was very nasty. Does not like facts..... Enjoys power. Oh and what about the time I found board meeting info in the paper garbage, it had all of my financial information in it, bank accounts, matching credit cards, and social security numbers. I never received any apology for that either. He did curse me out the other day though, many F bombs and if looks could kill. He was a completely out of control lunitic. Had it not been for an elevator door and a witness (the super, so that's no help when it comes to them acknowledging the truth) but it may have saved me from a severe beating. Call the police, yea don't bother with that advise because they are of no help. They will only intervene if I am beaten up or dead. So yea that's another dead end in my cry for help. I need real help, not lip service, and so far nothing.
I just hope you don't read about me in the papers. Actually I'm published in the Urban Dictionary. When I used the phrase in a sentence I mentioned my infamous board. I can't say what the phrase was because although it has no curse words it is rather down and dirty and I don't think that's allowed here. But yea they were soliciting for the meaning of a phrase. I typed it in forgot about, then about a month later I got the email. My definition of the phrase had been reviewed and published by the editors.

I have a good example. I receive an email from the former MA.
Your AC has leaked into apartment 1D and destroyed the walls. You are responsible for damages.

Odd I live on the 3rd floor and the trickle from my AC bypassed the 2nd floor apartment and destroyed walls on the first floor. Since an adjuster was over in regard to the 3 floods to my newly renovated bathroom I asked him to look into this claim. He never heard anything like it in all his years and they would not entertain such a ludicrous claim. Nevertheless she came to my door trying to shake me down. She didn't want to go through insurance she just wanted me to give her cash. Oh yes the super who drills the holes in the wall above me is the one who figured out I was responsible for the destruction of her wall. The board said it had noting to do with them it was between myself and the shareholder on the first floor. I did get a laugh from one of them when I told them how she just wanted cash. Then I said what about the super making this completely absurd claim. Again they recused themselves saying it had nothing to do with them. There is so much more and my frustration level is maxed out. Feeling very helpless in this situation. I have stopped paying maintenance IDC. The product is garbage I am not getting what I am paying for I regard to this maintenance/rent. If you go to a restaurant and find a cockerroach in you meal what do you do? Do you pay for a meal that consisted of these little critters. Should the waiter argue with you because the soup was good and they want you to pay for that. Not only am I not getting what I have paid for, I am being tormented. They have no morals or values and I have only stated those things that I can prove. What I think my be going on I can't prove so I will remain silent on that. Sorry for the rant I am just at my ropes end and really need help. Thanks for listening, it was somewhat lethargic yet still disturbing that people can be so rotten.

Hire an attorney? Why should a shareholder be put through this. Co-op boards and MAs have a responsibility to shareholders. Some boards are just poison. It is very expensive to hire an attorney. I have a similar problem in my building. My insurance agent suggested that I report them to the state. I have not yet decided. But yes it is a complete joke, our building is leaking like a sieve from shoddy work preformed by the previous super. He was doing next to nothing for the co-op but he was very busy with his renovation business. It will only cost around 50 grand to litigate. The real problem with many co-ops (not all) is you have foxes guarding the hen house and you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I am not going to tell you to elect a new board because sometimes it is not possible when there is major dysfunction. There are no easy answers, but I understand exactly how you feel. Best of luck to you.

MK - You are very quick to jump to (incorrect) conclusions.

I specifically did not say "hire" and attorney. I said "consult" with a practicing attorney. The original poster said at the end of their post that they only wanted a 100% guaranteed answer. To me, the only way to get a 100% guaranteed answer to a legal question is to consult with a 100% legal practitioner.

Most attorneys will initially meet with a perspective new client at no or very modest cost to determine if there is any basis for further legal action. If not, they will say so.

If they feel there is, they will discuss with the perspective client what courses of action may be available, the risks vs benefits of pursuing further action, and the estimated cost. At this point it is up to the perspective client to either "hire" the attorney to initiate the action, or simply walk away.

Keep in mind that any legal advice offered in forums like this is worth what you paid for it. Most general advice given here is accurate, insightful, on point, and very useful. But when someone asks a question of a legal nature, the only sure way of receiving a 100% accurate legal response is to speak with a legal professional.

It is still going to cost $ to consult... If it is a rouge board the consult is useless. They do as they please.... You will need an attorney to HANDLE them. I'm not jumping to any conclusions. You are playing with words.

Who asked if I had invited the super in for a brew? You are assuming I drink. I have an attorney & it $$$$$$$$, but I have gotten the shaft from this rogue board so it is worth every penny. There is only so much a person can tolerate and I have reached my limit. When someone is out to screw u a beer wiil not fix it.
But you can report to the attorney general.

This is very simple, I'm not sure of your location but we have a 311 # to call and report any wrong doing. You can report this without giving your name. I realize living in a Co op myself we have 2 sets of share holders "The cans & The can not's " depending what side of the board your on. Good Luck.

Of course you can require legal plumbers on the job! Your co-op should have an up to date "Alteration Agreement" which should be referenced for every renovation in your building. I am an architect and work on many co-ops and condos. A standard which I see in every Alteration Agreement is the requirement that any plumbing and electrical work be done by licensed plumbers and electricians. This is a must-have in your agreement if it is not already. Talk to your board president.
-Andrew Mikhael AIA

This situation is complicated. My first thought is that you state in the first sentence that you declined to use an outside contractor. This implies this is a renovation. That would normally require your contractor to have insurance.

Your super did not have insurance, and I don't think the co-op's insurance would cover his work because he did a renovation, which I think is beyond the scope of the co-op's normal insurance coverage - even if the MA gave the okay. The problem is that YOU knew he wasn't a licensed contractor, yet you still agreed to let him do contractor type work.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer, only a Board member, so take my opinion for what it is.

My second thought is that you hired a guy who has a grudge against you. This is an accident waiting to happen, and it did. It sounds like you wanted to save a few $$ by using the super, but this super had it in for you. Not a good game plan.

You're now at the point where the work has been corrected by a real contractor. That's the most important thing. It's your home.

As far as suing, I think you might win something, but certainly not everything you want to recoup. I don't believe your case shows a clear cut victory for you because you agreed to let a non-contractor do contractor type work.

That opens up a can of worms because I think a judge will say that knew that before he started the job. Even if the MA said he's qualified, you're the guy that hired him, so I think a judge would hold you accountable for your decision.

Also consider the court costs of suing in a case where you definitely have some liability. Thats a factor, too.

I don't know how much $$ you had to spend in total, but I think this is one of those situations where you should chalk it up to experience and let it go, even if it cost you some money. Life is too short.

The work has now been done correctly. Consider that $$ well spent. In the future, only use a licensed contractor for renovation work, and keep your contact to a minimum with the super. Let him in your apartment to do only the basic necessities. The co-op is responsible for those types of repairs and upkeep.

I might suggest that if the super is coming to your apartment for any needed repairs, you should take a video of the area to be worked on BEFORE the super does his work. Just in case he has any type of ulterior motives to do you wrong. It can't hurt.

Good luck to you, and I'm sorry for your troubles.

I did not hire an outside contractor for several reasons. They tried talking me into things I did no want. I was also told that what I wanted done was impossible. I did all the work myself and I will be 60 this August. It consisted of all new appliances and I needed plumbing work because I was installing a dish washer. I removed 2 layers of tile the glue was so thick it was like playing with mud pies. I leveled some dips in the floor with wood filler rather than the carcinogenic self leveling compound that a contractor recommend. I removed old cabinet doors and sanded an painted them. I purchased an unfinished cabinet so I could paint it to match. I removed the draw and turned it into a sink front tray, and cut out a section of the back for plumbing. All I need from him was plumbing and to cut my butcher block countertop. The MA gave the go ahead for him to do the plumbing. If they can not stand behind their employee them they should not recommend him. I had no idea he was uninsured in fact maybe he is insured. Why would a MA allow an unlicensed individual do this work. It sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I am the victim and I find his behavior unacceptable and in fact criminal. Contractors who walk off the job and rip people off are criminals and that is a fact. I am the victim and you are in effect "blaming the victim". It is not all about the money and saving a buck either. Several years ago I paid a contractor for a complete rip out of my bathroom it cost 10 thousand and it looks great. I could have hired the super for that job ( a different one who was fired) he wanted the job but when I discussed it with him he did not seem to know what he was doing. I could have "saved money" if I hired him, but I did not. All I needed was a little help with plumbing something I don't do and don't want to do. For any MA or board to allow an employee to continuously do side jobs and recommend them for these jobs without any guarantee is ludicrous. The MA and board are fiduciaries. Allowing an employee to do this is a complete failure in this regard. He did it during regular business hours and it appears to me that they are working on his behalf instead of mine. Also offering him this side job was that same as offering him a fig leaf, he took it snapped it in half and threw it in my face. Excusing this behavior because he has a grudge REALLY! I am sorry to say that I completely disagree with your point of view, but you are entitled to your opinion. So I guess we can just agree to disagree. Yet I do appreciate that you took the time to give it consideration and provide a response
Thank You

First lets get a few legalities out of the way, even though I am not a lawyer. Only board members are considered fiduciaries and they owe their fiduciary responsibility to the co-op corporation. The MA is an agent of the corporation and the board is responsible for their actions. If you have a beef with the MA you need to address it to the board. Same with the super. He is an employee of the corporation. Any problems need to be taken up with the board.

You may have received a recommendation from the MA and they may have approved your alteration (dumb without an alteration review or any form of pre-alteration oversight), but you contracted privately with the super. The MA had no involvement at all in the transaction. It is your responsibility to sufficiently vette the super or any contractor who performs work for you.

In your original message you said that the super had performed satisfactory work for other shareholders. As far as the MA was concerned, there were no red flags that would prevent them from making the recommendation. If the MA were to assume any liability with regard to the super's performance, it should have been stated very clearly up front, and they would need to be compensated for taking on the risk. It doesn't sound like you had any agreement or guarantee in effect with the MA.

The fact that you tried to make amends by offering the super a paying job is admirable, and it's a shame that he didn't reciprocate. No one is excusing the super's behavior, but it sounds like you and he were flying at different altitudes. Did you say to the super anything to the effect that you realize there was bad blood between you in the past, but that you wanted to end the animosity, and would he be willing to accept a paying job from you. Did you give him any indication that the job was a de facto peace offering? Invite him in for a cold brew while the two of you discussed what you wanted him to do? If not, what lead you to believe the super had any idea about what you were thinking?

Hopefully you will remember this episode the next time you need work done in your apartment. Not all contractors are scam artists, most are on the very up and up. You will need to perform you due diligence by reading reviews and performance rating websites to learn about others' experience with perspective contractors. The red flags will appear pretty quickly.

Best of luck with future renovations.

No I did not invite him for a brew. I hired him to do a job. I treated him with dignity and respect. In return he was malicious. There is no excuse for his behavior. It is just that simple. Any other questions regarding what I may have done to make amends is irrelevant.
More to the point is why does the board and MA allow it. If he is not vetted to do the work wouldn't it be prudent to warn potential customers. Or better yet enforce co-op policy. But that is the dysfunction of co-ops. I feel like Alice in wonderland. Instead of pointing a finger at me and coming up with all the things I could have, should have, and would have done. I suggest you look at the situation in its entirety. Then come up with a could have, should have, would have list for the super, the MA, and the board.

I want to reinforce everything that Marty wrote. His answer is well stated and spot on. You are fortunate that this did not escalate into something more serious and that your apartment is back together.