Usually refunds come in the form of credits. It's never cash.
That credit should be transfered to the shareholders through their maintenance bill.
You deduct from your tax return the amount of real estate taxes you paid throughout the year.

It doesn't have to be paid back or only used for the next years taxes, it can be held back, or taken back in a special assessment to defray unplanned expenses in operating or capital improvement accounts, such as: a very cold winter and big spike in heating fuel costs that take you too far beyond contingency planning, unforeseen physical plant break downs, repairs or replacements that would deplete the reserves by too large a factor, a need to rebuild a sorely depleted reserve fund etc. this is all serving as an offset to a potentially larger maintenance increase or assessment that might otherwise be needed. And the best part is you don't really feel it as you are not having to write a special check to cover it. Your just not getting it back. IF the fact that it is there, and is being put to legitimate use is still unbearable, well, I can't help you with that...!

This is a different discount than dsi is referencing - this is 1%of the total tax bill if you pay in full by July 1st. DSI is referring to the annual tax abatement. They are tow completely different things.

thank you all for your responses. The board used the money for repairs that we already have a $2Mil loan for(paying on it for 3 yrs). As for not feeling it....well when you always have a tax deduction on your taxes (around $3k) and now you have only $30.00, it hurts. Many of us will have to pay more to Uncle Sam or get less as a refund.

Hi,

You did not mention in which town. In NYC, we get a 1% discount on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter Real Estate tax if we pay them early. We also save up all year for it and so we receive interest income.

If this refund could be used to pay your next year's tax early (or partially early), then the corporation benefits by having less expense. This is fiscally prudent. Your Board could be doing a great thing by following this route.

Also, if you received a tax refund, that means you received too high of a tax credit in prior years. The current lack of one just evens it out. No, tax credits do not have to be paid back to the shareholders: remember, it is the corporation that owns the building, holds the mortgage and pays the tax. It is only a quirk in the tax law that allows the passing of interest and taxes back to the owners (for example, regular shareholders of corporate stock do not receive this credit)

Sincerely,

I am trying to get a google groups on co-op shareholder rights /fight back crowdsourcing. The group is formed , now we need people with some nads. The problem in this bldg is at 50% owner/occupied, the rest have zero nads. i have tried. They think they will sell and move on. If they are on the board, they are liableand will be in court. I also think if a provate seleer tells a buyer that it is 90% O/O and it is 50%, that is going to bring them into a lawsuit. A real estate will lose their license a real estate company , the whole company may get shut down. We need to work together and share info. This site is great, but not for the shareholder who needs to fight back. A renter has much more power and less worries then people like us who have our life savings invested in the co-op. The law is on our side but the AG office for co-ops should be disbanded and put on the unemployment line.They dont do sh!t, they are the ones that approved the conversion plan, they should be the ebforcer , the same as with the renters.I am speaking of refusal to provode a shareholder list, refusal to view the financials s the proprietary lease states. refusal to provide contact info for the BOD. one board member has never lived her, yet they fraudebbtly say he lives with his 35 plus year ols son in a one bedroom. Pure fraud. the pres doesnmt live here and inside dealds constanely. the list goes on and on. The managing company was the sponsor and IMO is in bed with the pres. The rest of the bod does no due diligence or anything, they dont even knoe who had check signing powers and where the new bank is, and what the name is. There are no shareholder co-op lawyers, advertising in any conspicuous place. The co-op conversion is the biggest scam in real estate since the conversion started. Even a good-hearted board will get ripped off, since there is no one watching the building manager, it is a win /win for the corrupt/lazy managing agents companies and should be exposed as such. The first scam was the asbestos removal, that popped up in the building as soon as the conversion papers ink was dry, A lot of money spent , from the shareholders accounts , why wasnt it done when it was a rental. why didnt the inspectors find it and have it corrected at the rental property expense? The scams went deeper and deeper from there.
How many people on the board know the craft jobs? i know some of the craft jobs and what i see is the old planned delayed maintenance for the big payoff when a water leak or elevator room holes are big enough to put your hands through= lots of future money for elevator repairs. If you dont think someone is getting a big piece their crazy. I have heard at the annual meeting the MA say that there was no way to stop the doors from slamming shut on the hallways, the ones with the hydraulic closers. He also said there was no way to make the incinerator doors bigger, it is a compactor now. i measure the interior and theyre is plenty of room to knock out some bricks and put a new door in. It may ne expensive, but say that and give a price. All he does is put out pure fraud info. The managing company owner refuses to talk top me.Probably because i went through channels and filed complaints. The managing company is telling people the building ids 90% owner occupied. I gave the print out from their new york law journal to the pres of the bod and MA 3 or 4 years ago at a annual meeting, and brought up the fact that it was about 50% at that time. now suspect it is lower. i guess real estate board is next, they hung themselves with their rope. They changed the voting procedure not in accordance with the bylaws. in effect making it a totally closed board. we need to work together put some shame on the AG office and get people that want to earn their paycheck. Write all your legislators from the bottom to the top including Cuomo and the state senator. i believe it is bank fraud when you mistate the owner occupancy ratio and that is big in the news. we could get a good media place to do a story on 3 or 4 co-ops with this stuff going on.We have to fight back. i would prefer a lawyer knock on my door or call me , but i want someone who is good. AS far as knowing craft as a member of the BOD, if you are not a journeyman plumber or electrician etc , you will never know how much you are being ripped off.in my craft we had slang for certain supplies, but if i told you i needed a dozen chineseazzh0les and 3 bulld1cks most would thing i was pulling their leg, but those were the names no offence for any lack of pc, it didn't exist back then. google groups and twitter . learn to use the crowdsoucring tools to your advantage. These thieves want it quiet.

This board and management company is behaving blatantly illegally. You need to contact the state Attorney General's office to tell them the board has refused to have elections for five years and is intimidating shareholders who have protested to have elections. As well, if a group of you can pool some money and hire an attorney, I'm relatively confident the bullies will fold. The other things you can do is to try to get the media involved -- places like NY1 and the NY Post thrive on David vs. Goliath stories.

i too would like to know the rates and if the banks have a cap on minimum # of owner /occupied apartments to even talk about a mortgage. In 1989 the co-op market dropped in Westchester overnight. A person bought for 170k and next week could not sell it for 35k . I saw it happen so i knew the housing market turn was coming, since the flipping of houses reminded me of the baseball card market when it was like playing hot potato.

above

@Amelia, sure go post below.

It is a rant.

@Amelia,
Mary Dunn did not post this, this is about Mary Dunn!

Mary Dunn is manager and either pres/vp of the low income co-op where I lived for 25 years. I was forced to leave my home by this person, who worked a retaliatory campaign against me for many years because I started to ask for accountability of her and she did not like that, even though she was/is manager/pres! I cite specific instances in my post as to what I endured and that is just the tip of the iceberg! Like I said, this person is a master manipulator and knows the right things to say to the right people. Because I lived directly across from her for 25 years, I know her very well and found the content of the New York Times article to be rife with untruth. She is not a "Neediest Case". She draws a salary as manager of the co-op AND also holds a position on the board and should be held responsible and accountable, but was not. Furthermore, in my opinion, she and others in the co-op have utilized the co-op lawyer, Michael Schwartz, of Barry Mallin and Associates as if he was their own personal lawyer.

FYI, HDFC (low income) co-ops are a whole other entity from say, your market value co-op, they are formerly city owned buildings that were sold to the tenants associations in them. I have found on Habitat Boardtalk that people in non HDFC co-ops do not understand their issues and react with hostility. IMHO, Boardtalk should have a whole separate forum for HDFCs.

Thank you,
Name the names

take it off habitat - it is clogging the board

Do you own Habitat? if not ,don't clog up the board with your trolling remark. If Habitat wants to remove it , they will, that is their call. She makes a lot of sense if HFCD are that corrupt, especially since it is taxpayer monies. If even a portion is true as far as self dealing and all that other stuff, it should be welcome here.
It seems that HDFC have a whole diffferent set of laws and rules, but this doesnt sound like correct action, since i would guess tax dollars have paid for a lot of this, therefor it should be held to a higher standard in this time of fiscal responsibility.
I guess the attorney general wont bother with it, they are pretty worthless on regular co-op law violations, even though they signed off on the conversion.
Try Help me Howard. if he is still on or one of those other media people. I am starting to write to local media too, see if they want a story. leaning to wnyc,no advertisement money to interfere. I already wrote them, if you have crazy problems that should be taken care of by the AG, write WNYC too.

google it. - this is a HUGE savings.

to write to the NYT is more appropriate and maybe more effective.

If you're in NY, I would stick to the NYPD requirements.
Call them, I'm sure they'll help you.
NFPA stands for national fire protection association.

I don't know what this is. Can you elaborate please or put up a link? Thanks

When you pay your real estate taxes in full, on July 1st, you get a 1% discount from the Dept Finance.

thank you.

Contact attorney and management company.
It's probably not enough.
If it were, half the buildings in New York would be bankrupt !
A meeting/election must be scheduled to remove those individuals, and to fill those seats. Those meetings must be supervised by the buildings attorney. Any irregularity can void the entire process.

I have read quite a few accounts where the bldgs attorney conducted such planned BOD takeovers where the bldg attorney.acted on behalf of the current board and also threw the election, improperly to the original BOD.
Look at it this way, the managing company and bod are the clients of the attorney, They act in cahoots with threse people. i do not know if they are legally obligated to do so, since they are the sitting bod. I have read either here or at cooperator where the bldg attorney realy threw the meeting to the standinf boartd and it sounded very illegal. Not counting proxys, know the proxy laws, if both people are on the stock , then both people must sign the proxy, or it is legally thrown out. You have the same right so at the beginning of the meeting request a copy of the shareholder list, i believe that is BCL,not a bldg by bldg rule.
Read the proxy law and rules, proxys can be on ant form, it does not hjave to be on the mailed out form, it can be on a pieceof binder paper , aslong as it has the criteria that the bcl specifies.
it will be a battle that may not ne won, or i doubt will be won that night,as the bldg attornry is going to say you lost, if you have a condo, i think it is condo, attorney present, that will stop a lot of the BS.
i personally would hace two people with video cameras video tapinf the whole thing with external mikes. For safety sake do the two person rule, 3 is better. if one of your video people oramnyof yout peopeis brinh thrathned , zoom in and recordit, record ay proxy that is thrown out, the tpe may prove it was a correct proxy and the vote will count in court. Meeting arte held in public places like your lobby, it is a public space for a owner. so they can videotape it. They may try and stop you , call 911, or talk to your preceint beforehand to let them know you may need assistance, but hopefully it wont be an emergency . Get a report from the police concerning the call. All this will help you when you go to court to win.
do your home work on proxys and practice with the cameras if your people are not used to shooting video under stress. If your apartment is close enough or if you know how to extend your signal , you can get a sd card that will live sream to you tube.
i believe in video advocacy,no he said , she said, just the facts.
do not edit the tape , if you go to court and the tape is going to be entered as evidence, the whole tape will have to be provided, or the sd card, not a copy. keep a copy, but they will want the original tape. That is the criminal court way of doing it, but dont blow the case by trying to save 5 bucks and putting something else after the important tape

Which documents ?
Your corporate attorney should have a copy of the main coop documents.
Your accountant all the tax returns, budgets and financial statements.
Your management company should maintain an up-to-date copy of all of the above.

I know that the management company is missing some contracts, and some letters from shareholders sent to the manager.

Should the management office have some record of all incoming and outgoing mail as well as a list of all documents kept in the office?

Each Management company has it's own way of functioning.
One way or another, they should keep a record of all correspondance and contracts.
But I also suggest that as a board, you maintain a copy as well. That's the secretary's duty to organize and file all corporate documents ( minutes, agendas, correspondance, contracts, notices and policies, house rules etc ... )

Basically, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

The "powers" are defined by the bylaws. You can only modify them by an amendement approved by the majority of shareholders.
Also, you must make sure that those changes do not contradict NY Business Law. A corporation needs a President, Treasurer and Secretary ... with their respective duties.

Note: any officer can be removed from those duties with a simple board vote.

For example: when a new treasurer is elected, does he/she need to make any report about the financial situation as of the day he/she starts work as a new treasurer? Is there any accountability during the transfer between the old and new treasurer?